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Anatomy of a Mechanical Keyboard (2018)

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Re: Anatomy of a Mechanical Keyboard (2018)

#71

Post by drewg123 »

What I want is a non-radical, normal sized, ergonomic mechanical keyboard. I basically want an MS natural keyboard with a decent feel. Does such a thing exist?

Why are so many mechanical keyboards tiny? They don't want to spend the money for more switches?

I thought I found something "close enough" in this split mechanical keyboard (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07FK74QY5/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b...). But it is "tiny" and doesn't have normal function keys, etc. After a while its lack of keys drove me crazy and I went back to my old mushy MS Natural.

Re: Anatomy of a Mechanical Keyboard (2018)

#72

Post by the_pwner224 »

atoav wrote: post #38
thrwaway442 wrote: post #34

Now seems like a good time to ask: does the loud, audible click of a mechanical keyboards increase the user's accuracy? Are our ears in the loop, consciously or not? A family member had a mechanical keyboard with a cherry mx switch and I tried it out with an online typing test I'd tried before. I could type about 20% faster than usual, which is already way up there. I easily hit 135+ in several segments[1], which is…

I have a keyboard with silent black MX switches and I never felt any need for clickyness. The cool thing about these linear switches (Black, Red, Silver, Grey) is that you can type extremely silent if you like to, by just hovering the keys or you can type loudly by bottoming them out (if somebody was wrong on the internet or so). When I type silently it is less loud than my lenovo notebook keyboard. For me the click…

> I have a keyboard with silent black MX switches and I never felt any need for clickyness.

I had a red keyboard and I never felt that it was necessary. But then I got a blue and I would never go back. Just because the sound isn't necessary or helpful doesn't mean it's pleasing to have it.

Like a big moon roof in a car, if you've never had one you may not really see the point, but once you get one the feeling of having light coming in from overhead is something that you quickly begin to enjoy.

You may want to try this program - even though I have blues I keep it enabled when I use headphones or when I am using the laptop keyboard: https://github.com/zevv/bucklespring

Re: Anatomy of a Mechanical Keyboard (2018)

#73

Post by userbinator »

uncletaco wrote: post #61
userbinator wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you think that the keyboard is the problem, and not the indoctrination of "this is the right way to type and posture" leading to further stress? In fact, in my admittedly small sample of others I know who do have problems with their wrists, they were all ones who tried very hard to rigidly conform to the "standard" posture and move only the fingers of the hands instead of the whole arm. They were also people w…

How old are you, if you don't mind sharing?

Middle-aged, and have been typing for several decades.

Re: Anatomy of a Mechanical Keyboard (2018)

#74

Post by aasasd »

jacobolus wrote: post #44
EL_Loco wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The split keyboards and ortholinear keys aren't that much better. They're mostly ideas about what would be better ergonomically, but they haven't been as thoroughly thought out as they seem. For the split keyboards, look at the whole of human history and tell me, out of the hundreds of thousands of years of tool use all the way back to the stone age, how many of those tasks were done with your arms set straight out i…

Ultimately, the ergonomic goal of a tool like a keyboard which is used for extended periods should be to encourage use with all joints in a relatively neutral position, with very low static load on muscles. The thing that splitting the keyboard (while keeping it flat) helps with is reducing “ulnar deviation” of the wrist (outward rotation in the plane of the hands). It is also possible to avoid ulnar deviation on a s…

Personally for myself, I found the best option to be MS Natural 4000's backward tilt (down at the back)—I'd like it to tilt even more at low desk heights but oh well. That way, the wrists stay straight while the fingers drop downwards a bit, in a feeble emulation of Kinesis Advantage's pits. I even use a wrist brace sometimes, which pads the wrist on the palm's side giving even more of a raise—feels really great for the fingers, but alas can't be reproduced in a stock wrist support because of the thumb getting in the way.

Re: Anatomy of a Mechanical Keyboard (2018)

#75

Post by amatecha »

aasasd wrote: post #2

You'd think that with the DIY freedom people would be making Kinesis Advantages and slapping touchpads in the middle. But no, somehow it's the same old flat boards for arms that grow out of the chest and fingers that extend out of the hand instead of rotating on joints; with the typewriters' staggered layout that makes no sense on electronic keyboards. Only now they're a couple centimeters higher so the wrists are ev…

People are most definitely making unique form factors like that:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/amatecha/41021237041/in/album-...

https://www.flickr.com/photos/amatecha/31638862398/in/album-...

Re: Anatomy of a Mechanical Keyboard (2018)

#76

Post by in_hindsight »

frostburg wrote: post #41
alpaca128 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of people build their own ergonomic split keyboards, there are even websites like keeb.io which focus purely on kits for such variants, and open source projects like the ergodox or dactyl keyboards that everyone can 3D print(or otherwise create) and handwire with their own choice of componentes and materials. Of course it's not the majority but a market exists and many of the kits are almost constantly sold out…

I built a Nyquist from keeb.io parts (and zealios 67g switches). It was mostly to learn how to flash QMK to a microcontroller, solder the components etc., but I used it for a few weeks and it was surprisingly comfortable, better than my usual topre novatouch.

How do you find 67g switches? I built quefrency with 67g Zilents and while they are comfortable I wonder if they are a bit too stiff for fingers joints health

Re: Anatomy of a Mechanical Keyboard (2018)

#77

Post by oposa »

hakfoo wrote: post #69
oposa wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But 3D printing solved the first problem and they are mostly soldered with wires rather than experimenting with pcbs. It doesn't really. Modern diy culture is ultimately about publishing. That is what puts you on somewhat equal footing with a large entity. What we mostly have with 3d printing is a do-it-for-yourself culture. That is why every institution will have an exclusive maker space, where you will get reprim…

Doing a keyboard is easy. Doing it well is surprisingly hard. Canned firmwares solve a lot of bootstrapping problems, and there are spoon-feed tutorials to get a working PCB, but you run into a lot of real-world constraints soon. While loose wiring allows for custom experimentation of some designs, ergonomic 3D shapes, it also tends to increase complexity of assembly and risk of things going wrong (shorts and loose c…

Sure, that is sort of what I am saying. It is hard to build a community around custom cases when injection molding starts at $5k. It is like trying to start a band (before the Internet) with no venues, demo or posters. That would be infinite rehearsal.

But I guess as I said in my other comment it depends on what you mean with diy. If it is about doing something in the craft sense you can 3d print, laser cut and solder. And you can collect keycaps and choose colours. But if it is doing something where the design of the keyboard is what you are doing, rather the assembling of it, than you need some sort medium for your design. And since their aren't much of scene to present your work in (like you would have with custom cars) you have distribute it.

There a huge disconnect between this idea of drones, 3d printing or maker spaces as the future and the reality of what is possible on the ground. And that is about being able to make a hundred of something without waiting months, spending quite a bit of money and/or traveling to China.

But I guess it is a bit of a tangent. As you said people don't make more different keyboards because things like cases and flex pcbs are expensive.

Re: Anatomy of a Mechanical Keyboard (2018)

#78

Post by oposa »

drewg123 wrote: post #71

What I want is a non-radical, normal sized, ergonomic mechanical keyboard. I basically want an MS natural keyboard with a decent feel. Does such a thing exist? Why are so many mechanical keyboards tiny? They don't want to spend the money for more switches? I thought I found something "close enough" in this split mechanical keyboard ( https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07FK74QY5/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b... ). But it is "tiny"…

> Why are so many mechanical keyboards tiny? They don't want to spend the money for more switches?

Yes, to some extent at least. But maybe more the pcb, plate, case etc. I have a pcb for a ms natural style keyboard (without the numpad) and the effective size is 40x15 cm (16x6 inches). Not that expensive to get in China, but I guess it is has also become fashion with smaller boards now. I think the whole thing sort of started with modifying pok3r, ducky, ninja type keyboards

Re: Anatomy of a Mechanical Keyboard (2018)

#79

Post by frostburg »

in_hindsight wrote: post #76
frostburg wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I built a Nyquist from keeb.io parts (and zealios 67g switches). It was mostly to learn how to flash QMK to a microcontroller, solder the components etc., but I used it for a few weeks and it was surprisingly comfortable, better than my usual topre novatouch.

How do you find 67g switches? I built quefrency with 67g Zilents and while they are comfortable I wonder if they are a bit too stiff for fingers joints health

I like them, but I have a somewhat soft typing touch and don't bottom them out (they're harder to bottom out than most switches, too). I don't know if lighter switches (which are likely going to be easier to bottom out) might be better for joints.

Re: Anatomy of a Mechanical Keyboard (2018)

#80

Post by garbre »

cogburnd02 wrote: post #62
garbre wrote: post #57

How many of these tiny keyboards need to ship before linux makes the magic sysrq key remappable?

Well, you can do it; you just have to patch your kernel. I googled 'linux remap sysrq'.

Everything is possible if you patch your kernel...
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