What happens if we do this but we also reduce planetary carbon emissions in other ways? Will we cause another ice age?
Well in that case the combustion engine will earn a second golden age. :-)
Project Vesta – Mitigating climate change with green sand beaches
71–80 of 341 posts
Re: Project Vesta – Mitigating climate change with green sand beaches
#72Earlier quoted context omitted.
You can monitor CO2 real time. And if we ever took too much out, which is vanishingly unlikely: just burn more oil! You can buy a co2 sensor for $150 or so.
Lol. Im sure $150 co2 sensor will be able to detect co2 concentration in the atmosphere of our planet. Climat is a very delicate system. Once we remove too much there might not be enough time to reverse this.
In general yes - Outside my co2 sensor shows an accurate enough current planetary co2 level. Watching it is frightening.
Re: Project Vesta – Mitigating climate change with green sand beaches
#73Hey, heads up to anyone associated with Project Vesta... currently your webshop shows an empty store[0]. Also, if executed right then this project could market itself. Travel "influencers" love to show off unique beaches and destinations, and uniquely coloured beaches are always a huge hit. By marketing these beaches appropriately it will generate a lot of attention and (hopefully) a lot of funding for the project. G…
Hi, if you'd like to donate at this point please check out https://projectvesta.org/donate where we currently have our "Grain of Hope" necklace available. It is a single grain of olivine, suspended in a sand timer vial, to symbolize that although time is ticking, it is not too late to stop (and reverse) the damage.
Since we do not have a beach yet where we can place olivine, we were originally not planning to offer the additional jewelry yet. That said, we are seeing demand for additional pieces at this point, so as long as people are clear that we don't have our $25 spent -> 1 ton of olivine on the beach process going yet, and that the donation is going to fund operations and to get our pilot project onto the beach, we will be happy to put them up. For now, I have removed the Cart from the menu, which I am guessing allowed you to work your way to the empty shop :)
And also you are right on target about the beaches and influencers. While we will be working on a top-down policy level with government and other groups to deploy the beaches, the plan is to simultaneously work from the bottom up to create a global movement of people who want to take action on climate change through influencers and ambassadors visiting the beach and also wearing the jewelry to spread the message.
Re: Project Vesta – Mitigating climate change with green sand beaches
#74Earlier quoted context omitted.
We have ways of measuring CO2 in the atmosphere in ppm. It's recorded daily. 30 billion tons of rock is needed per year. That's non trivial in logistics and cost. You think if it turns out to work too well they'll just keep going year on year until no CO2 is left, and not maybe slow down or stop instead?
I'm not talking about this one project, but multiple projects going on at the same time. And yes we can measure it daily but do we know what's the lag? If we remove 1mln tons of CO2 from the atmosphere today, will it show up in the results tomorrow? If not, do we know how that's going to affect the climate?
I have no doubt that any project that gets scaled will be closely monitored for CO2 and effects locally - governments will want to know they getting something for their money. First to prove it works well enough, that they're not being defrauded by convincing snake oil, and also any unintended consequences no one mentioned.
It took years of the gigatons from burning oil, and the gigatons coming from burning forest and other plant material not being replaced by new growth that got us into this mess. We might be remediating for decades or centuries. Any and all are going to take years to ramp up to required scale - of mining, building, logistics, finance. We should get ample warning.
So long as contracts are written such they can stop when no longer needed... (I believe they'll probably always be needed until the oil is literally finished, but that's entirely different conversation!)
Re: Project Vesta – Mitigating climate change with green sand beaches
#75Interesting! I didn't know olivine was that plentiful. There is said to be a problem with shortage of construction sand leading to beaches being stripped for sand. So this would solve a secondary problem at the same time.
Yes, olivine is highly abundant, but due to lack of demand, most of it is currently staying underground. We seek to change that. We are looking for synergies like that, such as covering eroding beaches, breakwaters, etc with olivine. If you are interested in sand in construction and otherwise, I highly suggest you check out the book The World in a Grain. The importance of sand in our everyday life blew my mind. I mea…
Are you selling your olivine operations as CO2 offsets?
If so, how cost effective would that be vs those offsets that are based on planting trees?
Re: Project Vesta – Mitigating climate change with green sand beaches
#76Earlier quoted context omitted.
> It already happens in nature 4000 ppm CO2 was found in nature far before pre-industry came along. Does the fact that anything "happened in nature" make it "ideal?" What is the globally "ideal" level of CO2 anyway? Certainly 200ppm is an order of magnitude low when considering the ideal for plants.
4,000 ppm was a period far before humans or advanced primates, and very different flora. 200ppm is around the level humanity, and much of the flora we share the planet with, evolved. It's the level we started to develop from, to farm. Nature and the planet has no ideal, it copes with whatever there is. Humanity on the other hand would appear best served by the level we evolved with - 200ppm or thereabouts. 400ppm cau…
Greenhouse owners generally spike their air to 1200-1500ppm CO2. That's the compromise between best cost and best for the plants and is lower than these species evolved in.
As to humans, 400ppm causes zero problems, matter of fact, OSHA says 1000ppm for continuous exposure. NIOSH says 10,000 ppm for a 10 hour work shift.
For instance: https://inspectapedia.com/hazmat/Carbon%20_Dioxide_Exposure_...
Re: Project Vesta – Mitigating climate change with green sand beaches
#77Earlier quoted context omitted.
We will be testing the sources of olivine for nickel, and as posted upstream, we have potential solutions for phytomining the olivine reserves for nickel with nickel hyper-accumulating plants, and then burning plants, retrieving the nickel ore and using the proceeds it to further fund operations...
I hope you would still run tests to determine how much left over Nickel is getting into the ocean. Not just coral will be effected by Nickel, but other important invertebrates as well such as amphipods which play an enormous role in the food chain and health of reef environments. And we’re talking parts per billion (ppb) when heavy metals can start to become toxic. And correct me if I’m wrong, but Manganese is anothe…
Yes, we plan to not only run tests on every source before placing the olivine on beaches, but to carry out on-going monitoring with sensors. We are looking for experts in this area (and many others) to help design processes to make sure the olivine weathering is purely beneficial to the marine ecosystem (i.e. deacidification, increasing calcium carbonate levels, and boosting diatoms). You seem passionate about this, if you or someone you know can help us with this please sign up here -> https://projectvesta.org/get-involved/
Re: Project Vesta – Mitigating climate change with green sand beaches
#78Earlier quoted context omitted.
Hi, co-founder of Project Vesta here. Based on a CO2 life cycle assessment, to minimize CO2 created during transport, the idea is to utilize mines within 300 km (186 mi) of the destination beach. Including mining, milling, and transport, we can hopefully maintain only a 4% efficiency loss in terms of CO2.[1] This paper has a few examples of models where it is 93% efficient for mines within 1,000 km. [2] Fortunately,…
please address the release of nickel into the environment. That stuff can be trouble, especially for people with sensitivities.
He did so here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20404766
Re: Project Vesta – Mitigating climate change with green sand beaches
#79From the pictures it makes the beach look like its covered in algae or seaweed. I don't think people will be very receptive to the idea if it looks like that.
There already are green sand beaches, which are considered something of a tourist attraction.
https://www.google.com/search?q=Green+Sand+Beach&client=fire...
Re: Project Vesta – Mitigating climate change with green sand beaches
#80Earlier quoted context omitted.
Hi, co-founder of Project Vesta here. Based on a CO2 life cycle assessment, to minimize CO2 created during transport, the idea is to utilize mines within 300 km (186 mi) of the destination beach. Including mining, milling, and transport, we can hopefully maintain only a 4% efficiency loss in terms of CO2.[1] This paper has a few examples of models where it is 93% efficient for mines within 1,000 km. [2] Fortunately,…
Will olivine-covered beaches be still good for recreation? Will olivine sand produce fine dust that would muddy the water? I bet the first few green beaches would just look cool enough to increase he stream of tourists — as long as walking over an olivine beach feels safe and not unpleasant. Also, is dumping olivine on rocky but flat enough shores an option? That is, may it not replace existing sandy beaches but form…
Green Sands Beach on the island of Hawai'i is a big tourist attraction. So, yeah, it seems fine for recreation. (Except it won't be cool anymore if every tropical beach is green...)