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Hong Kong protesters occupy legislative chamber

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Re: Hong Kong protesters occupy legislative chamber

#71

Post by vasili111 »

everybodyknows wrote: post #64
dvfjsdhgfv wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> While capturing Crimea by RF was extremely reprehensible, there was not much at stake there for any side not directly involved in the conflict. There was something else still: the population of Crimea was mostly Russian. Like, really Russian. Using only Russian language, calling hryvnas rubles, and in general feeling Russian. Many of these people actually liked the idea of Crimea being a part of Russia (at least be…

The Tatar minority in Crimea, on the other hand, did not like the idea of being Russian subjects much at all. https://newrepublic.com/article/116814/crimean-tatars-primer...

I do not understand why that message was down voted. Tatars are really the oldest owner of Crimea and they do not support Russia. They remember many bad from Russia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deportation_of_the_Crimean_Tat... And now too nobody asked them if they want to be part of Russia or not.

Crimea is occupated and this is reality. All other talks about how much Crimea is more Russian sounds like a Russian propaganda.

Re: Hong Kong protesters occupy legislative chamber

#72

Post by pishpash »

filoleg wrote: post #61
bllguo wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HK used to flourish because it was the access point between China and the West. If they completely severed ties with China there is no value proposition anymore... what "higher highs" are you anticipating, exactly?

>If they completely severed ties with China there is no value proposition anymore Becoming independent from China != completely severing ties with China. Also, I think these days a better served purpose of HK is as the access point to the whole Asian/SEA region, rather than the access point to China alone. Also, HK seems to be (from an outsider perspective) one of the most (if not the most) "westernized" cities in th…

What is it about post-colonial westerners that makes them not able to grok that the world, but especially Asia, no longer exists to serve westerners?

Should there be a most "easternized" city in the heart of Europe that should have a prolific Mandarin speaker base?

Re: Hong Kong protesters occupy legislative chamber

#73

Post by [deleted] »

dmix wrote: post #3
NeedMoreTea wrote: post #2

You might almost think it was intended to provoke a reaction. So much so it smells like a false flag op. They were left pretty much alone for about 12 hours, while they broke windows and shutters, since the first reports of broken windows came last night. To justify the "entirely necessary but unavoidable" reaction coming soon?

The last time the HK police used force there was a massive backlash and the police were angry the government put them in that position to take the brunt of the people's anger. There are very good non-conspiratorial reasons for the police to take their time, this time around. Plus there's always a subset of protestors who just want to destroy property and take a more aggressive stance (usually the younger ones), regar…

[deleted]

Re: Hong Kong protesters occupy legislative chamber

#74

Post by pishpash »

dirtyid wrote: post #41

These kids fucked themselves so hard. Entering LegCo will enable the government to identify (and punish) the most radical elements under HK riot law. Covering their faces won't stop the government from identifying every mobile device that entered the building via cell tower, GPS and wifi router records. Throwing bricks in the public and blending in with the crowd on the street is one thing, entering an easily geofenc…

They want to be arrested as martyrs, that's the whole modus operandi. They want escalation beyond what the majority probably bargained for and it's not going to end well.

Re: Hong Kong protesters occupy legislative chamber

#75

Post by pishpash »

soruly wrote: post #66
jedberg wrote: post #21

I'm honestly surprised it took this long to see something like this. I remember the day Hong Kong was turned over to China. I watched it live on the news. The Hong Kong people were most definitely not happy. I'll bet at least 1/3 of the protestors weren't even born when that happened. But they have access to both oral and written history about how things used to be. Information is a powerful thing. I hope they succee…

twenty years ago, many believed in the idea "One country, two systems", "50 years unchanged"

No they didn't. People left in droves to Canada then.

Re: Hong Kong protesters occupy legislative chamber

#76

Post by 4ad »

pasabagi wrote: post #46
dirtyid wrote: post #41

These kids fucked themselves so hard. Entering LegCo will enable the government to identify (and punish) the most radical elements under HK riot law. Covering their faces won't stop the government from identifying every mobile device that entered the building via cell tower, GPS and wifi router records. Throwing bricks in the public and blending in with the crowd on the street is one thing, entering an easily geofenc…

They probably used burner phones. At least, that's what people do in Germany.

German people break into the German parliament?

Re: Hong Kong protesters occupy legislative chamber

#78

Post by pishpash »

koenigdavidmj wrote: post #68
nkoren wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

False flag op was my instant reaction as well. The original protestors were fastidious in their civic-mindedness. These are not them. These protestors are producing made-to-order photos for the Chinese press. When China steps in to "restore order", this will be why.

My guess is that this is legitimate, but a strategy like the Republicans used in Northern Ireland. Everyone knows that your little city can't defeat the PLA. What you can do is make yourself ungovernable without making China do things that would tarnish their world reputation. If China quells this protest, but in the process turns Hong Kong into another Xinjiang (including the "reeducation" camps for protesters, and…

And this is good for Hong Kong how?

People need to get over the reality that One Country Two Systems was meant to be a transition, not a permanent condition. Legally. The most legitimate path that is not tinged with racism or colonialism is to use that time to make sure China becomes a prosperous and free country that everybody wants to live in, as it should be.

Re: Hong Kong protesters occupy legislative chamber

#79

Post by dan-robertson »

pishpash wrote: post #75
soruly wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

twenty years ago, many believed in the idea "One country, two systems", "50 years unchanged"

No they didn't. People left in droves to Canada then.

I don’t see how this comment (or rather the second sentence of it) and the one above conflict: Many people didn’t believe it and went to Canada. Many people did believe and didn’t go to Canada.

These don’t feel mutually exclusive to me.

Re: Hong Kong protesters occupy legislative chamber

#80

Post by germinalphrase »

IAmEveryone wrote: post #45
germinalphrase wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is good to hear. As an American, I’m not sure how independently the editorial choices are made at the BBC.

In that case, it may be better not to throw out accusations. People are cynical and mistrusting enough. No need to feed the believe that every politician is corrupt and every journalists lying.

I think you’re casting too dark a shade on my comment. Independent new publications like the BBC, NPR, New York Times, etc. will always be in discussion with - and often reliant on information provided by - politicians on world events. It’s part of the process of news making.
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