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Universal Basic Income is 'best way to distribute equity stake in productivity’

sociable.co

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Re: Universal Basic Income is 'best way to distribute equity stake in productivity’

#71

Post by wmf »

undersuit wrote: post #55
tomschlick wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This seems to be a strawman to me. I've never seen it argued that UBI should come with any kind of requirement that it be spent in certain ways, or that further monitoring would be required to ensure that people didn't do stupid things with it. Given that UBI replaces most other social programs, you'd have to consider if you let people who waste their stipend go hungry or not. If a single mom waste's theirs, do we…

If a single mom wastes their SNAP/WIC now do we give them more SNAP/WIC?

One would hope that we give them a social worker or something, but if UBI also eliminates that...

Re: Universal Basic Income is 'best way to distribute equity stake in productivity’

#72

Post by maxxxxx »

insickness wrote: post #70
peterangular wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a pretty horrible argument unless they come back through to actually explain what they mean. > Wealth redistribution doesn't work and never has. Is a HUGE sweeping generalization that has literally zero substance in a discussion - and technically it's false off-the-bat because I'm certain almost anyone can think of at least ONE example where the "redistribution of wealth" has worked to lessen human suffering. Al…

Try responding to the logic of my argument rather than phrase 'wealth redistribution.' What's to stop this universal income from being pushed higher and higher to the point where it is a large fraction of income for most people rather than a small fraction of income? Do you really think that UBI will replace welfare?

the logic of your argument was " Wealth redistribution doesn't work and never has.". there wasn't much subtlety in that. Are you saying that Western societies don't work and never have worked?

Re: Universal Basic Income is 'best way to distribute equity stake in productivity’

#73

Post by undersuit »

wmf wrote: post #71
undersuit wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a single mom wastes their SNAP/WIC now do we give them more SNAP/WIC?

One would hope that we give them a social worker or something, but if UBI also eliminates that...

If the mother is endangering the children I'd rather the children be given a social worker(and protect their UBI if children do receive a benefit). The mother may still have her UBI.

Re: Universal Basic Income is 'best way to distribute equity stake in productivity’

#74

Post by ap3 »

undersuit wrote: post #66
ap3 wrote: post #61

I don’t get what UBI solves vs the existing social safety net programs >James Felton Keith, tells The Sociable that a Universal Basic Income is the best way to distribute an equity stake in productivity — thus creating an “asset holder class.” US already provides a tremendous amount of value to its residents vs the rest of the world - doesn’t that count as a stake in productivity ?

The cost of administration of the social safety net programs disappears when you stop caring if the benefits are used to buy cigarettes instead of milk, validating that a Section 8 domicile is worth the payments to the owner, or verifying an individual on unemployment is actively trying to return to work. Everyone gets $X.

I guess, but don’t you lose the safety net too?

Re: Universal Basic Income is 'best way to distribute equity stake in productivity’

#75

Post by ap3 »

zackmorris wrote: post #21

I'm against the agism in the article but the rest of it is sound. Right now we means test shareholders on the basis of whether they have capital to invest in a company, which is discriminatory in a society like ours where wealth inequality is the highest it's been in the history of the world. If half the country has no upward mobility and an impoverished quality of life that takes everything they got just to survive,…

>If half the country has no upward mobility and an impoverished quality of life that takes everything they got just to survive, then wealth is an inherited trait just like cultural identity.

I question whether half the country has no upward mobility and an impoverished way of life.

Furthermore wealth is inherited, and we have an inheritance tax for it.

Still don’t get how UBI creates wealth

Re: Universal Basic Income is 'best way to distribute equity stake in productivity’

#76

Post by peterangular »

insickness wrote: post #70
peterangular wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a pretty horrible argument unless they come back through to actually explain what they mean. > Wealth redistribution doesn't work and never has. Is a HUGE sweeping generalization that has literally zero substance in a discussion - and technically it's false off-the-bat because I'm certain almost anyone can think of at least ONE example where the "redistribution of wealth" has worked to lessen human suffering. Al…

Try responding to the logic of my argument rather than phrase 'wealth redistribution.' What's to stop this universal income from being pushed higher and higher to the point where it is a large fraction of income for most people rather than a small fraction of income? Do you really think that UBI will replace welfare?

> Try responding to the logic of my argument rather than phrase 'wealth redistribution.'

When y'all land it with "Wealth redistribution doesn't work and never has" as the last sentence, I'm left to think that may have been your overall point!

Respectfully, I'm not going to respond to the rest of it because I do not think we would be able to effectively communicate on the topic.

Re: Universal Basic Income is 'best way to distribute equity stake in productivity’

#77

Post by RickJWagner »

Just imagine if Hacker News gave a monthly 'points' stipend to every user. You wouldn't have to earn up-votes or make popular submissions-- the upvote 'points' would be equitably distributed among all readers.

What would that do to the discussions? Would it encourage more free dialogue? Would it help promote more civil discourse?

Serious question. It seems like a close model to UBI. Is there a point-counting-forum that has tried this?

Re: Universal Basic Income is 'best way to distribute equity stake in productivity’

#78

Post by insickness »

peterangular wrote: post #76
insickness wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Try responding to the logic of my argument rather than phrase 'wealth redistribution.' What's to stop this universal income from being pushed higher and higher to the point where it is a large fraction of income for most people rather than a small fraction of income? Do you really think that UBI will replace welfare?

> Try responding to the logic of my argument rather than phrase 'wealth redistribution.' When y'all land it with "Wealth redistribution doesn't work and never has" as the last sentence, I'm left to think that may have been your overall point! Respectfully, I'm not going to respond to the rest of it because I do not think we would be able to effectively communicate on the topic.

Exactly. You have no response to my arguments.

Re: Universal Basic Income is 'best way to distribute equity stake in productivity’

#79

Post by insickness »

maxxxxx wrote: post #20
insickness wrote: post #13

UBI will never replace welfare. People are not going to agree to cut off current welfare programs. And it will not stay at a $1000. It will go up. Not long after implementation, a politician will soon say that $1000 is not a livable wage and that it needs to be $2000. The next politician will say that it needs to be $5000. Basically this opens the door to socialism where we will just be haggling on the amount of weal…

All Western countries (including the US) do some kind of wealth distribution and it clearly works. Societies without any form of wealth distribution don't work. Or do you have an example? I can't think of any.

So you're saying that the $1000 dollars won't go up? Are you saying that we will eliminate current welfare by using UBI? Never going to happen. Go ahead and keep attacking a straw man.

Re: Universal Basic Income is 'best way to distribute equity stake in productivity’

#80

Post by maxxxxx »

insickness wrote: post #78
peterangular wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Try responding to the logic of my argument rather than phrase 'wealth redistribution.' When y'all land it with "Wealth redistribution doesn't work and never has" as the last sentence, I'm left to think that may have been your overall point! Respectfully, I'm not going to respond to the rest of it because I do not think we would be able to effectively communicate on the topic.

Exactly. You have no response to my arguments.

You have stated no arguments.
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