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We launched an app with $500k annual revenue, and then Apple copied it

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Re: We launched an app with $500k annual revenue, and then Apple copied it

#71

Post by stefan_ »

AlphaWeaver wrote: post #37
cheeze wrote: post #3

On the flipside, this app looks like it was kind of a hack to get working. "Tunnel all of your traffic through our VPN to get tracking of social media use." It doesn't surprise me that Apple would want to offer first-party support.

This is because this would have been the only method to "block" access to the apps. Apple provides no API for other apps to "moderate" the opening of other apps, like Screen Time can do. This is a workaround because they were working in the sandboxed environment that is iOS.

I have an app on Android for ad blocking that simply runs the VPN server locally. Works perfectly fine. Of course that means all the juicy data isn't flowing through your startup, on the upside you won't wake up one day with an angry mob asking the attorney general to federally charge you for hijacking their communication under the false pretense of app usage tracking.

Re: We launched an app with $500k annual revenue, and then Apple copied it

#72

Post by cardiffspaceman »

didibus wrote: post #53

I'm not sure Apple copied it. I think the idea to have a way to track and limit phone usage was pretty widespread, even 5 years back. I multiple time looked for an app like that. The problem is that of security, and any app of the sort needs too many permissions over other apps. The VPN solution poses a big security risk to users as well. This really only makes sense as a first party feature. Now, the part where Appl…

> Was it breaking any of their rules?

The rule against using VPNs to gather usage data, which apparently is new.

Re: We launched an app with $500k annual revenue, and then Apple copied it

#73

Post by panopticon »

megous wrote: post #11
cheeze wrote: post #3

On the flipside, this app looks like it was kind of a hack to get working. "Tunnel all of your traffic through our VPN to get tracking of social media use." It doesn't surprise me that Apple would want to offer first-party support.

Apple could have just offered the app usage API, because it was obvioulsly lacking.

I feel like the novel uses for such an API don't outweigh the costs.

Even if Apple did provide such an API, the app in question also blocked access to social media apps via the VPN. My head would explode if Apple allowed apps to exercise direct control over others apps in such a fashion.

Re: We launched an app with $500k annual revenue, and then Apple copied it

#74

Post by dmlittle »

username3 wrote: post #59
nerdjon wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly so am I, this sounds like a privacy nightmare. Sending all traffic through their servers specifically for the purpose of tracking what you're doing. Isn't this one of the things Apple was upset at Facebook over (including the fact that they went around the App Store) since they don't allow this sort of tracking? So maybe them building the feature is not the only reason they removed your app?

What is Apple’s app for tracking social network activity?

It's Screen Time and you can find it under Settings > Screen Time. It doesn't really track social network activity as much as iOS app usage by app categories (it can't tell if you were writing a post, browsing images, etc.).

Re: We launched an app with $500k annual revenue, and then Apple copied it

#75

Post by Jack000 »

scarface74 wrote: post #52
IkmoIkmo wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that's fine. What's not fine is removing the app itself from the app store as it was generating $45k a year, the same week of releasing its competing app. Either you remove it because it's against the TOS, anytime in the 1.5 years that the app existed, or leave it be. Don't 'coincidentally' remove it the same week you release a competing app. That's just nonsense.

I don’t care how much it was generating. It was a severe invasion of privacy. If that’s how they made their money, nothing of value was lost.

It's an invasion of privacy if the tracking is unsolicited. It's not an invasion of privacy if the tracking is the point of the app.

The app had paying users, it clearly had value to some people.

Re: We launched an app with $500k annual revenue, and then Apple copied it

#76

Post by rhinoceraptor »

namesbc wrote: post #60
jrvxo wrote: post #4

As an end user, am I happy that Apple took your idea and built it in the OS, stripped of ads, premium features, tracking and analytics, etc? Yes, yes I am.

This type of app would have been possible to build without a VPN on any other OS. Apple has chosen to make it difficult for anyone other than themselves to build such apps. This is an abuse of market position in one market to expand in another, and has a long term negative effect on the health of the industry if only the large players that own the ecosystem can profit from it.

Do you really want 3rd party developers to be able to write apps that can introspect all other apps running on a phone?

Re: We launched an app with $500k annual revenue, and then Apple copied it

#77

Post by busymom0 »

smiths1999 wrote: post #68
rat9988 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess you aren't native english speaker. As a french speaker, I got bitten by it in the past. Revenu is the total income, you have probably profit in mind.

Yes - the comment you are replying to is making the point that revenue may be $500,000 (extrapolated) but if server costs are $1,000,000 then the app is losing money, not making money. I see this trend quite frequently, only mentioning revenue but leaving out costs.

Yep. One thing which I have learnt from watching Shark Tank is that many companies would come with crazy valuations because they make millions in revenue. Only once questioned by the sharks would they disclose the much bigger operating costs and were severely bleeding money instead of profits.

Re: We launched an app with $500k annual revenue, and then Apple copied it

#78

Post by m4tthumphrey »

threeseed wrote: post #70
totaldude87 wrote: post #2

This is the story of almost every other indie App developer with a good app idea/implementation , either you will be bought or destroyed. (or rake in millions when you can to sustain for few more months)

You can also become Instagram, WhatsApp or one of the many other multi billion dollar companies. Or does that not fit your narrative ?

> bought or destroyed

Fits the narrative precisely.

Re: We launched an app with $500k annual revenue, and then Apple copied it

#80

Post by rhinoceraptor »

Jack000 wrote: post #75
scarface74 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t care how much it was generating. It was a severe invasion of privacy. If that’s how they made their money, nothing of value was lost.

It's an invasion of privacy if the tracking is unsolicited. It's not an invasion of privacy if the tracking is the point of the app. The app had paying users, it clearly had value to some people.

The average user will not understand the implications of the tracking. And even if the tracking is benevolent today, who's to say that won't change when the company is acquired in six months?
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