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Oberlin College case shows how universities are losing their way

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Re: Oberlin College case shows how universities are losing their way

#71
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From my own experience, no, at the top universities the upper middle class demographic is far more concerned about lining up high paying jobs, networking, and/or working on their general social status than any sort of political activism at all. The activism comes from other groups, if even then. Maybe at small liberal arts colleges or less elite institutions your viewpoint might be true, but I can't speak for that.

Reading this I can't help but wonder where people graduating from Oberlin get jobs. Maybe as political campaign people or marketing or something? Just picturing someone walking into a large cement plan for an interview. "Why yes, I do believe I can pull this company into the black within 3 quarters. As you see I have a degree from Oberlin college...". Point being, graduating from there seems it could be not a positiv…

Disclaimer: My kid got accepted at Oberlin, but instead chose a large state university.

Our perception through the process of researching many colleges, was that the SLACs (small liberal arts colleges) tended to be relatively weak in subjects that tend to lead directly to employment, and that students in those subjects expected to attend graduate school by default. My kid expects to attend grad school, so that's one data point, but I also saw it when I was in grad school. A disproportionate number of my classmates were from SLACs, including myself.

It might not be too much of a stretch to say that the SLACs are feeders for graduate schools. Once you have a graduate degree, your choice of undergraduate college is water under the bridge, though the loans might not be.

Re: Oberlin College case shows how universities are losing their way

#72
post #63

There wasn't just a demonstration (tho even that would be overdone considering the kid was shoplifting wine - which is a crime and it's not like he was just trying to get some food to survive.) This was deliberate and repeated attempts to libel a store owner out of business or into inane submission. Imagine if your family owned and operated a business for over 100 years, only for it to be dismantled because you right…

> Sounds like you have been indoctrinated by the same hate Personal attacks will get you banned here. Would you please stop posting in the flamewar style to HN? https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20192246 and marked it off-topic.

Easy there big guy, nothing I did is a personal attack. Though you should watch your own posts because they're the type that gets you banned.

Re: Oberlin College case shows how universities are losing their way

#73
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From my own experience, no, at the top universities the upper middle class demographic is far more concerned about lining up high paying jobs, networking, and/or working on their general social status than any sort of political activism at all. The activism comes from other groups, if even then. Maybe at small liberal arts colleges or less elite institutions your viewpoint might be true, but I can't speak for that.

Reading this I can't help but wonder where people graduating from Oberlin get jobs. Maybe as political campaign people or marketing or something? Just picturing someone walking into a large cement plan for an interview. "Why yes, I do believe I can pull this company into the black within 3 quarters. As you see I have a degree from Oberlin college...". Point being, graduating from there seems it could be not a positiv…

Plenty of Oberlin alumni (including me) are appalled at how Oberlin is handling this situation.

Re: Oberlin College case shows how universities are losing their way

#74
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sounds like you have been indoctrinated by the same hate Personal attacks will get you banned here. Would you please stop posting in the flamewar style to HN? https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20192246 and marked it off-topic.

Easy there big guy, nothing I did is a personal attack. Though you should watch your own posts because they're the type that gets you banned.

>Though you should watch your own posts because they're the type that gets you banned.

Easy there - you're talking to the one who likely does the banning around here.

Re: Oberlin College case shows how universities are losing their way

#75

I am a grad student leaving university soon enough, and this does not surprise me at all. Especially at elite universities, there is this interesting phenomenon of mostly upper middle class white women from on average the most privileged upbringings in the western hemisphere arriving at a university they (anyone) could only attend by incredible privilege and luck. Yet they arrive fully convinced they have been held b…

> I often see people on hn saying this is all blown out of proportion and a small vocal minority but when you talk to undergrads these days, you will realize these beliefs are not just a handful of people but carry weight across the student population. This may have to do with the student population because I teach undergrads at a community college and I have recently taught at a liberal arts college and find this re…

It seems to be proportional to class in my experience. The more privileged a student is, the more outspoken they are when criticizing what they perceive to be injustices holding them back.

If we are being charitable, perhaps this is because the more privileged students have fewer repercussions from society to fear?

Re: Oberlin College case shows how universities are losing their way

#76
post #14

A bit more factual context: 1. The student "protests" erupted the day after the 2016 election results came in, with a corresponding politically inflammatory element at work in the background. 2. The underlying incident involved an underaged black student who attempted to buy a bottle of wine, was refused, and was then found to have 2 other bottles under his coat as he walked out. When the owner's son chased him out,…

Thanks for this. I hadn't dug deeply into this previously.

Reading this, I'm struck by how fragile our first amendment is that you can be sued for participating in a protest. It sounds like the only things that the university did "wrong" was end a contract and also one of their deans took active part in protesting.

Much of the glee seems to stem from the fact that the speech being expressed in the protest was dumb. I, for one, think dumb speech should be protected.

Re: Oberlin College case shows how universities are losing their way

#77
post #45

The problem I always have with stories like this is the context. 1) The writer breathlessly warns that "campuses across the country" are succumbing to mob rule. How many campuses is that? Sure, we "know" from the internet that this problem is rampant, just like we "know" that other hot-button issues such as shooting of unarmed black teens, the incel movement, anchor babies, etc. have reached epidemic proportions. But…

This is your paraphrase: > The writer breathlessly warns that "campuses across the country" are succumbing to mob rule. And this is the actual sentence from the article from which you took the quote: > As on other campuses across the country, these protests are encouraged by an array of faculty members and ever accommodating administrators. Not exactly a fair paraphrase. And I found the article's tone quite level; ha…

>...Oberlin College in Ohio is the equivalent of the “China syndrome” during nuclear accidents, a point where chain reactions become impossible to stop or control.

You find literally comparing this court case to a nuclear meltdown "level"? I tend to agree with the OP here, this takes an egregious case at a notoriously liberal school and then generalizes it to "across the country" as a clear and present danger. Oberlin was obviously in the wrong here and is being sharply punished for it, so it seems that the system is working.

Re: Oberlin College case shows how universities are losing their way

#78
post #76
post #14

A bit more factual context: 1. The student "protests" erupted the day after the 2016 election results came in, with a corresponding politically inflammatory element at work in the background. 2. The underlying incident involved an underaged black student who attempted to buy a bottle of wine, was refused, and was then found to have 2 other bottles under his coat as he walked out. When the owner's son chased him out,…

Thanks for this. I hadn't dug deeply into this previously. Reading this, I'm struck by how fragile our first amendment is that you can be sued for participating in a protest. It sounds like the only things that the university did "wrong" was end a contract and also one of their deans took active part in protesting. Much of the glee seems to stem from the fact that the speech being expressed in the protest was dumb. I…

What does this have to do with the first amendment? It doesn't protect individuals from lawsuits by other individuals for civil issues.

Re: Oberlin College case shows how universities are losing their way

#79
post #76
post #14

A bit more factual context: 1. The student "protests" erupted the day after the 2016 election results came in, with a corresponding politically inflammatory element at work in the background. 2. The underlying incident involved an underaged black student who attempted to buy a bottle of wine, was refused, and was then found to have 2 other bottles under his coat as he walked out. When the owner's son chased him out,…

Thanks for this. I hadn't dug deeply into this previously. Reading this, I'm struck by how fragile our first amendment is that you can be sued for participating in a protest. It sounds like the only things that the university did "wrong" was end a contract and also one of their deans took active part in protesting. Much of the glee seems to stem from the fact that the speech being expressed in the protest was dumb. I…

You can't be sued for participating in a protest, the lawsuit against the dean was for libel and targeted harassment, particularly from a position of power.

Re: Oberlin College case shows how universities are losing their way

#80
post #76
post #14

A bit more factual context: 1. The student "protests" erupted the day after the 2016 election results came in, with a corresponding politically inflammatory element at work in the background. 2. The underlying incident involved an underaged black student who attempted to buy a bottle of wine, was refused, and was then found to have 2 other bottles under his coat as he walked out. When the owner's son chased him out,…

Thanks for this. I hadn't dug deeply into this previously. Reading this, I'm struck by how fragile our first amendment is that you can be sued for participating in a protest. It sounds like the only things that the university did "wrong" was end a contract and also one of their deans took active part in protesting. Much of the glee seems to stem from the fact that the speech being expressed in the protest was dumb. I…

Libel is not protected by the First Amendment. It never has been. It ought not to be.
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