Let's make them pay for using our personal data • Hacker News Board

Re: Let's make them pay for using our personal data

#71

Post by thorwasdfasdf » Mon, Jun 10, 2019, 5:34 PM UTC

I know this is a really unpopular opinion, but what I don't get is why all this fuss over personal data? So what if facebook records what sites you've been to? If I visit starbucks, When I go to order my latte, the owners/baristas remember my name and face and maybe even what drink I ordered - you certainly don't mind that, right?

People aren't normally sensitive to these things: for example Govt on average takes 1/3 of people's incomes (thousand, tens of thousands of dollars) without the slightest hint of complaint. But when a company records where you've been online (with 0$ cost to you) it's all the sudden a disaster?

i genuinely struggle to understand this. if someone could explain it, that would be interesting.

Re: Let's make them pay for using our personal data

#72

Post by sp332 » Mon, Jun 10, 2019, 5:34 PM UTC

nostrademons wrote: post #49

Pretty sure the mechanics as detailed in the article are factually wrong. Google does not sell personal data. It collects all the personal data it can and then stockpiles it, where it becomes an asset that the company can use to build products and charge rent (largely from advertisers, but also from consumers). Selling an extremely valuable proprietary asset to competitors would be a really dumb move - the money in t…

Google does sell personal data, a little at a time. If I make an ad that targets young dog owners in Seattle, then when someone clicks that ad I know Google thinks they're a young dog owner in Seattle. Google sold me data about that person.

Re: Let's make them pay for using our personal data

#73

Post by Kalium » Mon, Jun 10, 2019, 5:37 PM UTC

sp332 wrote: post #72

nostrademons wrote: post #49

Pretty sure the mechanics as detailed in the article are factually wrong. Google does not sell personal data. It collects all the personal data it can and then stockpiles it, where it becomes an asset that the company can use to build products and charge rent (largely from advertisers, but also from consumers). Selling an extremely valuable proprietary asset to competitors would be a really dumb move - the money in t…

Google does sell personal data, a little at a time. If I make an ad that targets young dog owners in Seattle, then when someone clicks that ad I know Google thinks they're a young dog owner in Seattle. Google sold me data about that person.

Some might opine that you did not so much buy that data as buy the benefit of using that data. Afterwards, Google still has the data they used and you still don't. This might be a distinction worth discussing.

Re: Let's make them pay for using our personal data

#74

Post by iovrthoughtthis » Mon, Jun 10, 2019, 5:39 PM UTC

thorwasdfasdf wrote: post #71

I know this is a really unpopular opinion, but what I don't get is why all this fuss over personal data? So what if facebook records what sites you've been to? If I visit starbucks, When I go to order my latte, the owners/baristas remember my name and face and maybe even what drink I ordered - you certainly don't mind that, right? People aren't normally sensitive to these things: for example Govt on average takes 1/3…

This explained it quite well to mw previously: https://robindoherty.com/2016/01/06/nothing-to-hide.html

Re: Let's make them pay for using our personal data

#75

Post by nostrademons » Mon, Jun 10, 2019, 5:39 PM UTC

sp332 wrote: post #72

nostrademons wrote: post #49

Pretty sure the mechanics as detailed in the article are factually wrong. Google does not sell personal data. It collects all the personal data it can and then stockpiles it, where it becomes an asset that the company can use to build products and charge rent (largely from advertisers, but also from consumers). Selling an extremely valuable proprietary asset to competitors would be a really dumb move - the money in t…

Google does sell personal data, a little at a time. If I make an ad that targets young dog owners in Seattle, then when someone clicks that ad I know Google thinks they're a young dog owner in Seattle. Google sold me data about that person.

I guess, but that's basically the same information that you can get through the referer header in HTTP or by A/B testing different print ads. If you put up flyers in a certain neighborhood telling people to visit a URL, and you put up flyers in a different neighborhood with a different URL, then when somebody visits your site you know where they live.

This is of a dramatically different scale from the information Google has for its own purposes.

Re: Let's make them pay for using our personal data

#76

Post by sp332 » Mon, Jun 10, 2019, 5:42 PM UTC

Kalium wrote: post #73

sp332 wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google does sell personal data, a little at a time. If I make an ad that targets young dog owners in Seattle, then when someone clicks that ad I know Google thinks they're a young dog owner in Seattle. Google sold me data about that person.

Some might opine that you did not so much buy that data as buy the benefit of using that data. Afterwards, Google still has the data they used and you still don't. This might be a distinction worth discussing.

Now that someone has visited your site through a particular ad, you do have that data about them.

Re: Let's make them pay for using our personal data

#77

Post by sp332 » Mon, Jun 10, 2019, 5:43 PM UTC

nostrademons wrote: post #75

sp332 wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google does sell personal data, a little at a time. If I make an ad that targets young dog owners in Seattle, then when someone clicks that ad I know Google thinks they're a young dog owner in Seattle. Google sold me data about that person.

I guess, but that's basically the same information that you can get through the referer header in HTTP or by A/B testing different print ads. If you put up flyers in a certain neighborhood telling people to visit a URL, and you put up flyers in a different neighborhood with a different URL, then when somebody visits your site you know where they live. This is of a dramatically different scale from the information Goo…

I would be a lot more OK with this if Google were only using that data about me themselves instead of letting anyone with a little money use it too!

Re: Let's make them pay for using our personal data

#78

Post by ccallebs » Mon, Jun 10, 2019, 5:48 PM UTC

thorwasdfasdf wrote: post #71

I know this is a really unpopular opinion, but what I don't get is why all this fuss over personal data? So what if facebook records what sites you've been to? If I visit starbucks, When I go to order my latte, the owners/baristas remember my name and face and maybe even what drink I ordered - you certainly don't mind that, right? People aren't normally sensitive to these things: for example Govt on average takes 1/3…

Imagine that an entity knows your worst fears, deepest desires, biggest perversions, most sensitive insecurities, the people you love, the people you hate, the things you covet.

Now let's pretend that they know how to use this information to change your opinion. And not just your opinion, but the opinion of however many people fit their targeted persuasion campaign. Then understand that the moment the data is sold to another group, they have the same power. The new group might want to do things more sinister than sell you designer jeans.

Finally, realize that the information will last longer than you will. It'll probably be your legacy.

Re: Let's make them pay for using our personal data

#79

Post by kohtatsu » Mon, Jun 10, 2019, 5:49 PM UTC

thorwasdfasdf wrote: post #71

I know this is a really unpopular opinion, but what I don't get is why all this fuss over personal data? So what if facebook records what sites you've been to? If I visit starbucks, When I go to order my latte, the owners/baristas remember my name and face and maybe even what drink I ordered - you certainly don't mind that, right? People aren't normally sensitive to these things: for example Govt on average takes 1/3…

"Your data is worthless, everyone's data is priceless."

Taxes are unrelated, and people at your coffee shop recognizing you is nothing compared to the lengths Facebook and Google go to for vacuuming up any and all personal data.

Re: Let's make them pay for using our personal data

#80

Post by YeGoblynQueenne » Mon, Jun 10, 2019, 5:50 PM UTC

Could we just not let anyone use our personal data? I don't need, neither do I want to lease my personal data to google or facebook. I very much want that they don't use my personal data.

Note that I use neither google searcj nor facebook, but both google and facebook do collect my personal data, for example from my use of whatsapp, my Android phone and the google play store, etc. That really has to stop.