I’m not saving ninety percent of my income for myself • Hacker News Board

Re: I’m not saving ninety percent of my income for myself

#71

Post by zamfi » Sat, Jun 08, 2019, 4:55 PM UTC

jrobn wrote: post #29

If you look back at any wealthy family’s history they all have this story, especially in the USA. The story basically goes like this: “A long time ago our great great grandfather lived in a dirt floor home and the family worked really hard and was frugal and did without and eventually luck came their way and they made good investments, or happened to be in the right place at the right for a resource boom, and made a…

Of {home, fence, big SUV, sports, iPads, android phones, extra cars}, half of those don’t seem in the same league as the others...

Re: I’m not saving ninety percent of my income for myself

#72

Post by pm90 » Sat, Jun 08, 2019, 4:56 PM UTC

nugget wrote: post #48

barrkel wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It might be a dream if the feeling of security, of having assets, money in the bank, is the thing that's missing in your life. That'll be the case to the degree that you were insecure and poor as a child, I'd expect. I grew up poor, but not as poor as the lady in the article. And it was in Ireland, so there was a social security net, my college degree was paid for, etc. So I feel comfy enough once I have a year's tak…

Proponents of financial independence would say that high savings rates eventually buy you control over your own time which is one of the most rewarding things in the world.

It depends on specific circumstances though doesn’t it?

The view of these proponents is usually that if you can max out savings for 10 years or so by living extremely frugally, the next 40 or 50 years of your life can be lived without having to seek employment, which seems reasonable if that’s what you care for.

OTOH many people find their careers soar with time, as they build experience, empathy and learn their way around how the corporate world works. The financial rewards get larger, but more interesting is the opportunity to solve tough technical problems (well, for me, as an engineer).

I also find it a little wasteful to not enjoy ones youth, which is not a time that will come back, and is likely the only time where you can experience life somewhat unattached and figure out what kind of partner would work best, what kind of personality works best, which city is a good one to lay roots etc.

Re: I’m not saving ninety percent of my income for myself

#73

Post by pfortuny » Sat, Jun 08, 2019, 4:57 PM UTC

maxaf wrote: post #56

I’m 100% the opposite way. My wife is very frugal, but I save nothing. What’s the point of pinching every single penny? That’s not life; it’s survival. Even more ironic is the fact that this is multiple decades of mere survival all aimed towards one goal: ensuring survival in those decades when work is no longer possible. Perhaps I’m obtuse, but this isn’t a life worth living. I want to enjoy my healthy years in the…

This (the writer’s view) is what anxiety makes you think. And as an expert in anxiety (by experience, not study) I can tell you: no, that is not a life worth living. You are a slave of your future.

Re: I’m not saving ninety percent of my income for myself

#74

Post by luckylion » Sat, Jun 08, 2019, 4:57 PM UTC

crankylinuxuser wrote: post #46

roenxi wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ... so that they can choose their own avenues of success ... At present 'success' in practice is basically synonymous with 'resource consumption'. At a guess that is going to be a very sticky connection that might even be wired in at the biological level; it seems to be quite consistent across the different cultures I know of. It is not possible to liberate people to pursue success by improving the social safety ne…

> I think there is a good argument for making sure everyone has few-questions-asked access to ~9,000 kJ/day of food and some sort of safe housing to live in. We live in wealthy times. But a social safety net isn't going to set people up for success in any way that is meaningful to most people. I find that a very sad view. Many people I know can't start a business or do risky things because of food, shelter, medical i…

> Many people I know can't start a business or do risky things because of food, shelter, medical insurance/premiums.

I believe that's a personal thing, some people would, but most wouldn't. Some people would get hyper productive if everything was taken care off, others would barely leave their flat.

> I know I'd jump if I knew that if/when I failed, I wouldn't be destitute.

You wouldn't be in Western Europe. Yet, very few people jump and take a chance. I don't think that the effect is that large, if it exists at all - don't forget that social safety nets come at a price: (very) high taxes, lots of regulation, entrepreneurship isn't looked at the same way, the systems are rather static.

Re: I’m not saving ninety percent of my income for myself

#75

Post by marcinzm » Sat, Jun 08, 2019, 5:00 PM UTC

ThrowawayR2 wrote: post #43

cercatrova wrote: post #3

When I read stories like this, I always think of the systemic factors that are creating this behavior; that America, and indeed many countries in the world, do not have the social safety nets to take care of its own people when they can't work anymore. It would be better and more efficient for a nation as a whole to take care of its children so that they can choose their own avenues of success rather than needing to…

> Imagine where mankind could be if we had everyone being able to have the basics, and ample free time to think, to explore, to experiment, to create. Realistically? Probably better than 99% of people would play video games and watch TV their whole lives. Not everybody is oriented to be an artist/author, an inventor, a scientist, or some other creative type.

>Realistically? Probably better than 99% of people would play video games and watch TV their whole lives. Not everybody is oriented to be an artist/author, an inventor, a scientist, or some other creative type.

More people than you'd think, not saying they'd be good at it but they'd do more than play video games all the time. Nowadays you have people streaming, making podcasts, making tf2 hats, youtube videos, cosplay, fan-fiction, dancing, playing non-professional sports, graffiti, etc, etc.

Re: I’m not saving ninety percent of my income for myself

#76

Post by travisjungroth » Sat, Jun 08, 2019, 5:01 PM UTC

bradlys wrote: post #69

unreal37 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not that hard. She rents the house she lives in for more than the cost of her mortgage. She makes income from that there. They don't own a car. Her husband gets a free bus pass from work. No housing or transportation expenses. So what's left? Food? Her husband works in tech (first Amazon, and now Google!) and saves 100% of his income. And they live off hers. They have like $1.7 million saved from his Amazon stoc…

But it's incredible amounts of luck combined with having a partner who works for a series of big well paying public companies. Being able to buy a house and rent it out for more than you pay is /hard/ because it's based on luck. No one in a major tech hub could start and do that right now. Houses in the bay regularly sell for $10k/month in total cost but rent for $5-6k. And then immediately say goodbye to 40%+ of you…

I think they’re saying doing the math isn’t hard. Actually doing the saving and earning is a different matter.

Re: I’m not saving ninety percent of my income for myself

#77

Post by chillwaves » Sat, Jun 08, 2019, 5:03 PM UTC

pedro_hab wrote: post #10

double0jimb0 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Point to evidence that free time leads people to do these wonderful things. In a macro sense, biological life/evolution, economics, and production of goods points to innovation and efficiency gains being made by risking one’s time/enengy/resources in hope of creating a new local efficient outcome. Free time has nothing do with that.

Yeah, I like our world isn't wonderful as is. Imagine what a peasant from 300 years ago would think seeing what their work would be value at today. Its peanuts in our perspective, but not starving is a start, eating meat would be a luxury, being able to see a doctor. Hating ourselves is trending right now, sad.

I would certainly hope that 300 years of techonological progress would offer the basics to a "peasant".

Re: I’m not saving ninety percent of my income for myself

#78

Post by javagram » Sat, Jun 08, 2019, 5:03 PM UTC

> I once had a conversation with my husband about how if I died, he’d have to keep taking care of my parents

This seems like life insurance could come in handy. For someone in good health and relatively young it can be pretty cheap too.

Re: I’m not saving ninety percent of my income for myself

#79

Post by throwaway2019Z » Sat, Jun 08, 2019, 5:05 PM UTC

tantalor wrote: post #58

> A lot of Chinese people know this: It takes more than one generation to build stability A lot of every people know this. It's called "the American dream". You may have heard of it.

The American Dream is the polar opposite of relying multiple generations to achieve stability. The general interpretation of the American Dream is the notion that any one person can achieve success by working hard enough.

Re: I’m not saving ninety percent of my income for myself

#80

Post by luckylion » Sat, Jun 08, 2019, 5:05 PM UTC

thoughtfunction wrote: post #70

luckylion wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That may well be, but that's just one aspect France has generally always been known for (whether it's accurate, I don't know). New musical styles, for example, mostly came from the US in recent decades. Whether Broadway can be compared to Paris' musicals, I don't know. I just don't see the explosion that you'd expect. Europe should have Star Trek technology if that was the case ;) And sure, you could argue that they…

France is ahead in fashion and few other art forms. America is ahead in popular art because LA is the silicon valley of culture and has the population of Europe. After a certain point it's a language and population thing, and France has a language barrier compared to english.

I've never really understood fashion, so I can't comment on that (Whoever makes the models wear the most ridiculous outfit wins?). However, why isn't France going to Mars? Where is France (or Germany, or Sweden etc for that matter) creating the Internet, or GPS, or Hip-Hop, or Jazz, or doing cutting edge medical research? It's not that they don't do that at all - it just, that, if the safety net was such a strong driving force, we'd be light years ahead of the US. And we're really not.