Roads with protected bike lanes make both cycling and driving safer: study • Hacker News Board

Re: Roads with protected bike lanes make both cycling and driving safer: study

#71

Post by SketchySeaBeast » Mon, Jun 03, 2019, 6:39 PM UTC

tomjakubowski wrote: post #49

SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> biggest cause of issues between cars and bikes has got to be speed differential, so if I'm on the appropriate bike i always ride in traffic >That said there is a big biking population who should not be riding in traffic so without separated bike lanes can't get to parts of my city I was going to say - I've yet to see a biker keep up with commuter traffic, which would make the speed differential a problem.

At rush hour it can be easy to beat commuters in cars on your bike.

But that's due to the average velocity being low, not the maximum velocity. Also, bikes have the advantage of weaving past traffic in those circumstances.

Re: Roads with protected bike lanes make both cycling and driving safer: study

#72

Post by nogridbag » Mon, Jun 03, 2019, 6:40 PM UTC

jtms wrote: post #13

jxcl wrote: post #2

As a commuting cyclist I usually prefer to ride in the street than in a bike lane. Protected cycle lanes are great only so long as nobody turns to the right directly in front of you. When there are cars parked in between the cycle lane and the car lane it's much easier for the driver to miss the cyclist, and few people check the cycle lane before turning right. I was definitely guilty of this until I started cycling.…

I agree - I also find it safer in NYC to just ride with traffic. I have had several collisions with pedestrians who decided they would just step out right in front of me into my “lane” and nearly door’d on a couple of other occasions

That makes me feel even worse now.

The other day I stopped behind a cyclist at a red light on a major avenue in NYC. He was in the left lane and the bike lane is simply one more lane over.

When the light turned green he took forever to get going and even after 20 seconds he was still going dangerously slow so I honked him and felt like a jerk. I did not understand why he simply didn't use the bike lane.

The cross streets are a different story. The bike lanes there are basically non-existent and I have no problem sharing the road with cyclists there.

Re: Roads with protected bike lanes make both cycling and driving safer: study

#73

Post by RankingMember » Mon, Jun 03, 2019, 6:40 PM UTC

daenz wrote: post #58

RankingMember wrote: post #47

I yearn to see a city in the US make its city center area car-free for a year (not a weekend thing as has been done already) just to see how it goes over the course of a year or so. Cars won't disappear, so there'll need to be some kind of parking on the outskirts, but I just want to see if it's feasible (admittedly I want it to be, but am willing to be proven wrong).

It would be cool if—even for a day— cars drove on odd number streets, bikes on even number. Being able to freely move down the street on a bike without worrying about imminent death at all times would be such a huge stress reliever.

That's an interesting idea- I like it.

Re: Roads with protected bike lanes make both cycling and driving safer: study

#74

Post by foxyv » Mon, Jun 03, 2019, 6:41 PM UTC

ben7799 wrote: post #40

As a long time long distance cyclist an awfully lot of these lanes, both protected and painted/"sharrow" are really frightening. There is an anti-car/pro-bike lane group of researchers who want to push this style of road design super hard right now at all costs. There are still major problems with their designs though, they are working from the assumption cyclists won't learn to follow the rules of the road. Tell me…

I agree, they are missing a major component. They need cycles of the light where NO motorized vehicle traffic is going through. When they allow right turns through crosswalks or straight traffic while people are crossing they are making it far more likely for pedestrians and cyclists to be hit. Some New York intersections already do this.

I keep seeing right turning vehicles blow through intersections and almost cream someone and then honk at them like they did something wrong.

Re: Roads with protected bike lanes make both cycling and driving safer: study

#75

Post by jackcarter » Mon, Jun 03, 2019, 6:42 PM UTC

gpm wrote: post #54

Johnny555 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you wearing a motorcycle helmet? My bike helmet doesn't touch my ears and weighs around 300g, about 5% of the 5 kg weight of a human head -- I can't tell the difference between turning my head with and without a helmet, but it doesn't matter much on the road since I use a rear-view mirror on my glasses so I look behind me much more often than if I had to turn my head every time.

Normal cyclist helmet. It causes more wind noise and generally messes up directionality because there is something above your ears. A rear view mirror might change my decision, I keep intending to try some of those out.

I built one myself with some spare parts. I love it, to the point that I wear my helmet for short trips when I otherwise wouldn't bother.

It's modeled after this one: https://www.efficientvelo.com/home/safezone

The key component is the flexible, stays-where-you-put-it arm. Safezone is repurposing an industrial product called "coolant hose" - a 1-ft length costs less than $5. Epoxy a small mirror to the end, and attach it to your helmet with zip ties or velcro straps.

Here's mine: https://imgur.com/a/a9H7bXq

Re: Roads with protected bike lanes make both cycling and driving safer: study

#76

Post by ebg13 » Mon, Jun 03, 2019, 6:42 PM UTC

gpm wrote: post #20

fhbdukfrh wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with your general sentiment, but don't think people on electric bikes are going to improve the situation, rather make it much, much worse based on the electric bike share pilot in my city. Someone who owns their ebike might be better, but those on shared bikes are a danger to everyone and never wear a helmet.

Wearing a helmet increases your chance of death on a bike according to the statistics. I personally don't, I feel less safe wearing one. I can't locate cars as accurately with audio with one on my head, the extra weight makesy head turn slower, and I think subconsciously left often. Drivers pass more aggressively and illegally (most drivers passing break the law here that requires a meter seperation when passing a cy…

> Wearing a helmet increases your chance of death on a bike according to the statistics.

I'm not aware of any study that says this. The most I've ever read is speculation that wearing a helmet might lead to more accidents, but that's not the same thing, since accidents with head protection are less likely to result in catastrophic head trauma and death. Could you maybe drop a reference link or two for this claim?

Re: Roads with protected bike lanes make both cycling and driving safer: study

#77

Post by dsfyu404ed » Mon, Jun 03, 2019, 6:47 PM UTC

ben7799 wrote: post #55

linuxftw wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This stuff is plainly obvious when you've rode 10s or 100s of times more miles than the researchers. I'd argue, the points you make are 100% obvious if you've ever been through any intersection on a bicycle and needed to go straight or left from one of these lanes. You don't need 'research' when something is obviously stupid, but that seems to be something we've forgotten as a society. Around me, they put these 'bi…

Yes I would say you're right and this stuff should be obvious immediately to any adult, especially one who also knows how to drive a car. But watching the behavior of "people on bikes" who are not "established cyclists" it seems as soon as everyone gets on a bike they initially go through a period of forgetting everything about how the road works, probably because they are super afraid of the cars. I don't think you…

>Yes I would say you're right and this stuff should be obvious immediately to any adult, especially one who also knows how to drive a car.

>But watching the behavior of "people on bikes" who are not "established cyclists" it seems as soon as everyone gets on a bike they initially go through a period of forgetting everything about how the road works, probably because they are super afraid of the cars

You're being too generous.

There's a subset of the population that is simply lacking the ability to think about what other participants in traffic are doing and what they're trying to do and adjust their behavior accordingly. These people shit up the infrastructure for everyone else regardless of whether they're walking, on a bike or driving. They tend to leave near misses and accidents that are their fault but technically not their fault in their wake.

Re: Roads with protected bike lanes make both cycling and driving safer: study

#78

Post by RankingMember » Mon, Jun 03, 2019, 6:47 PM UTC

rapnie wrote: post #52

In NL the country is full with separate bycicle infrastructure, making it a paradise for cyclers. "Cycling is a common mode of transport in the Netherlands, with 36% of the people listing the bicycle as their most frequent mode of transport on a typical day as opposed to the car by 45% and public transport by 11%." "Some 35,000 km of cycle-track has been physically segregated from motor traffic, equal to a quarter of…

If I recall correctly from my visit, the bike lanes actually get plowed after a snowstorm before the car lanes! I like those priorities.

Re: Roads with protected bike lanes make both cycling and driving safer: study

#79

Post by bluGill » Mon, Jun 03, 2019, 6:49 PM UTC

matsemann wrote: post #33

chuckgreenman wrote: post #16

In Cincinnati, it's illegal to ride a bike on a sidewalk, which makes sense, it's not very pleasant for the cyclist or pedestrians. The result is that bicyclers ride in the street. You'll regularly get harassed for riding in the street, even when you're all the way to the right, or people will just open their door right into the lane when they street park. It's really difficult to travel with bicycles safely in a med…

> You'll regularly get harassed for riding in the street, even when you're all the way to the right I don't even understand the hate for riding in the middle. If a driver were to pass someone riding on the right, he would (should) have to move so far over that the next lane has to be empty. That is the same as if the bicyclist was in the middle. Riding to the right only invites cars to squeeze past. Take the lane, it…

Take the lane, but be aware of cars following. When they can't safely pass for a few minutes look for a long stretch where you can get out of their way.

Re: Roads with protected bike lanes make both cycling and driving safer: study

#80

Post by toast0 » Mon, Jun 03, 2019, 6:52 PM UTC

framebit wrote: post #53

ben7799 wrote: post #40

As a long time long distance cyclist an awfully lot of these lanes, both protected and painted/"sharrow" are really frightening. There is an anti-car/pro-bike lane group of researchers who want to push this style of road design super hard right now at all costs. There are still major problems with their designs though, they are working from the assumption cyclists won't learn to follow the rules of the road. Tell me…

As a bike commuter who's not exactly in Tour de France riding condition, I whole-heartedly love what few physically protected bike lanes there are in my city. They've greatly extended the range of places I feel comfortable riding my bike. I don't know if I'll ever be in good enough shape to feel comfortable claiming a lane and riding in traffic anywhere but neighborhoods and steep downhills. Yeah, it's a pain to turn…

If I have to get off the bike at most of my intersections and turns, I might as well take a bus, because I'll get there faster.

It might make seem to be reasonable to have these protected lanes for slower? cyclists in addition to allowing vehicular cycling, but there are two problems with this: a) it encourages car drivers to assume bicycles should not be in the lanes; b) it discourages cyclists from joining the flow when they're ready

As a cyclist, I'll gladly use separated infrastructure if it's fit for the purpose -- limited use trails that go where I want to go are great; separated bike lanes on big climbs are great.

Separated lanes that don't allow me to turn where I need to are unusable. Separated lanes that throw me into the flow of traffic from the right of parked cars with maybe 10-20 feet until the intersection where drivers are going to stop on green to turn right onto a crowded street are a death trap.