Live data from Hacker News

If I ingest a grain of sand size piece of the Chernobyl Reactor No.4 core

quora.com

71–80 of 81 posts

Re: If I ingest a grain of sand size piece of the Chernobyl Reactor No.4 core

#71
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, it has had several decades to decay, and the most dangerous radionuclides are the ones with short half-lives and thus high output. It's pretty amazing that it's still that dangerous given it's had over 30 years to decay.

Noob question, if it decays so quickly, how come there's so much of it around this late in the Earth's history? Or was it created only decades ago, by artificial means?

The short answer is, we created it. The half-life of Uranium 235 is 700 million years, so there's plenty of it around. When you bring a bunch of U235 together and cause it to undergo fission, it creates a bunch of the shorter-lived stuff as a decay product. Especially when a reactor melts down; you get a lot more of the stuff you didn't want, in a much more uncontrolled manner.

Re: If I ingest a grain of sand size piece of the Chernobyl Reactor No.4 core

#72

https://xkcd.com/radiation/ This masterfully illustrates the relative risks of various sources of radiation, something that the typical person on the street knows almost nothing about but thinks they do I live in Japan and read up on this topic after the Fukushima disaster

Which one is 3.6 roentgen, which is not great, not terrible?

Re: If I ingest a grain of sand size piece of the Chernobyl Reactor No.4 core

#73
I've watched this interesting (but long) talk by Brian Sheron, retired director of Nuclear Regulatory Research:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryI4TTaA7qM

It gives me a better understanding of the risk of nuclear power, particularly for current US reactors, and what our regulatory agencies actually focus on: really it's on preventing direct radiation induced deaths, and not so much on property damage. So: It's not so much that accidents directly kill people, instead they kill the land. The idea is that loss of cooling incidents are contained for a significant amount of time- at least 8 hours. I'm dubious, but this is thought to be enough time to evacuate people from the land that will eventually become contaminated. Only when people move back do people die, and then only from increased cancer risk (Brian says this becomes an EPA problem). So now the land is lost, because who would move back? [of course this focuses only on deaths from radiation, and not for example, deaths caused by stress to elderly people forcibly relocated].

I did not remember when people were evacuated after the Fukushima accident, but it was pretty quick, here is a timeline:

https://www.oecd-nea.org/news/2011/NEWS-04.html

There is another question I'm still trying to answer. If the final heat sink is lost (someone blows up a dam), can the reactor be shut down without incident, assuming no blackout? This would require that the decay heat is spread across a large enough surface area. I'm not sure if the containment building provides such an area (a 1000 MW reactor generates ~70 MW decay heat after shutdown). It reminds me that this is another area that NRC does not focus on: "terrorist attacks are a military problem".

Edit: well I answered my own question from wikipedia entry on containment building: "While the containment plays a critical role in the most severe nuclear reactor accidents, it is only designed to contain or condense steam in the short term (for large break accidents) and long term heat removal still must be provided by other systems." So if the heat sink is a man-made lake held by dam, it's a big risk (of course dam loss would cause direct loss of life anyway). I was wondering about this because my inlaws live near Duke Energy's Oconee Nuclear Station, on man made Lake Keowee https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Keowee

Re: If I ingest a grain of sand size piece of the Chernobyl Reactor No.4 core

#74

https://xkcd.com/radiation/ This masterfully illustrates the relative risks of various sources of radiation, something that the typical person on the street knows almost nothing about but thinks they do I live in Japan and read up on this topic after the Fukushima disaster

Which one is 3.6 roentgen, which is not great, not terrible?

3.6R is about 37mSv. So the bottom left one, "ten minutes next to the Chernobyl reactor core at the time of the meltdown", also the top right "maximum yearly dose permitted for a radiation worker" is 50mSv too - I guess the show did its research.

Re: If I ingest a grain of sand size piece of the Chernobyl Reactor No.4 core

#75
post #65

This is purely hypothetical, as like he noticed, the fuel particle is not soluble in gastric acid. The damage would be much less than that. Inhaling the similar amount of finely powdered radioactive dust is another story, though.

What movie was that?

Season 2 of 24 I think.

Re: If I ingest a grain of sand size piece of the Chernobyl Reactor No.4 core

#77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which one is 3.6 roentgen, which is not great, not terrible?

3.6R is about 37mSv. So the bottom left one, "ten minutes next to the Chernobyl reactor core at the time of the meltdown", also the top right "maximum yearly dose permitted for a radiation worker" is 50mSv too - I guess the show did its research.

The "ten minutes next to Chernobyl reactor core at the time of meltdown" is 50 Sv, not 50mSv.

3.6R was measured by the small dosimeters on site (and also happens to be their maximum read value). The bigger dosimeters didn't work or also maxed out and the person in charge didn't believe it.

The show mentions a 1500R value later on but outside the reactor building.

Re: If I ingest a grain of sand size piece of the Chernobyl Reactor No.4 core

#78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no such thing as dangerous information, only truth and not truth.

I disagree having read about people who work as content moderators for websites like YouTube. They frequently suffer from acute forms of PTSD having only passively consumed information. If information can cause PTSD, I would consider that information dangerous to one's mental health.

I would propose the unit of "Cuil". 1 Cuil is present when a piece of information causes permanent PTSD in 50% of the people viewing it within 1 week. 0.1 Cuil cause PTSD in 5% of the people viewing it and so forth. Measurements over 2 Cuil express timeframes shorter than 1 Week. So 100 Cuil would cause permanent PTSD symptoms within 8 hours.

Alternatively, you measure how long people remember the video vividly and express the danger as the half life of the information related to it's damage.

Re: If I ingest a grain of sand size piece of the Chernobyl Reactor No.4 core

#79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given that half time is 50000 years for some of its content its is not a big surprise.

The dangerous part, and the part that is discussed in the article, is CS-137, which has a half-life of about 30 years. The longer the half-life of something the less radioactive it is.

>>> That speck of spent fuel is still radioactive enough after 30 years to push most nuclear industry workers over their annual permissable dosage. Chernobyl itself is still phenomenally radioactive - but is far less so than it was immediately after the accident.

I was refelcting on this, not the original article and not on CS-137.

Re: If I ingest a grain of sand size piece of the Chernobyl Reactor No.4 core

#80
There are things much scarier and devastating than uranium. It took 10 micro-grams(10^-5 g) of Pu-210 to poison(ARS) Litvinenko. You cannot see that amount - so tiny it is. And the damage is almost 100% gamma rays - so its hard to detect and the damage is lowered when handling and maximal when ingested.
Post reply on HN