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Uber, Lyft drivers manipulate fares at DCA causing artificial price surges

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Re: Uber, Lyft drivers manipulate fares at DCA causing artificial price surges

#71

Post by duxup »

metalliqaz wrote: post #33
i_am_proteus wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And it only works as long as all of the drivers in an area agree: one or two drivers who don't join the scheme, and it doesn't work.

Not all. The large majority, but not all. There are very likely one or two drivers in the area that don't participate, simply because they aren't in the parking lot at the moment they orchestrate the mass logout. Surge pricing is about supply and demand, so if expected demand is high (like at an airport) they need a lot more than one or two drivers.

Maybe not all, but I wouldn't be surpised to see someone "not participating" txting a buddy "prices up".

Someone has to check it to make sure it is working.

Re: Uber, Lyft drivers manipulate fares at DCA causing artificial price surges

#72

Post by duxup »

Konnstann wrote: post #6

"On average, Lyft drivers earn over $20 per hour." I wonder if this figure takes into account all the waiting time, or just driving time on the app. If it is the latter, then that's a pretty scummy thing to say, considering that most drivers spend less than a third of the time actually driving people to their destination, putting the actual number closer to 7.00 an hour.

I feel like that's like the truck driver like stories where they'd talk about driver shortages and trouble finding new drivers and then quote average pay that is for someone with 10 or 15 years experience and pay you only get at the top shippers or working direct for a big company.

Re: Uber, Lyft drivers manipulate fares at DCA causing artificial price surges

#73

Post by duxup »

This seems like a logical outcome considering the company and contractors have an increasingly disconnected and at times adversarial relationship.

The entire gig economy is based on shifting risk onto the contractor (demand changes, benefits, protections regarding injury / illness)... and to some extent onto the consumer too.

Re: Uber, Lyft drivers manipulate fares at DCA causing artificial price surges

#74

Post by ackbar03 »

Oh man these guys think this is fraudulent? They should come to China. When rebates were all the rage, where the ride hailing companies would pay drivers subsidies, they developed software that could fake the GPS address on the phone and pick up fake rides without actually driving and get massive rebates

Re: Uber, Lyft drivers manipulate fares at DCA causing artificial price surges

#75

Post by eropple »

richardknop wrote: post #69
ardy42 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I dont see how Lyft gets off calling this fraudulent. The workers are "defrauding" Capital out of greater-than-substance wages. It's bullshit, and they'll try to re-frame in in terms of customers, but that's essentially their view.

Well, Lyft drivers are supposed to be contractors, it's normal for contractors to set their rate so I don't see how this is fraudulent.

'ardy42 is presenting the part of the argument that Lyft and Uber can't say aloud but almost certainly believe.

Lyft and Uber have a vested interest in making their objection seem "pro-consumer," when they're primarily anti-worker; lower prices to the consumer pumps up the demand curve and Lyft makes more money.

Re: Uber, Lyft drivers manipulate fares at DCA causing artificial price surges

#76

Post by sundaeofshock »

peterwwillis wrote: post #49

The only economic model that make Uber and Lyft make sense is if drivers are willing to take low pay (considering all their other costs). If they make more money than cab drivers, the whole model falls apart, because then cabs will be cheaper and the service won't be competitive. (Granted, the lack of having to pay for medallions saves them a bunch of money) I think the only long-term business plan that makes sense f…

Keep in mind that uber was successful early on not because of price, but because it was significantly more reliable then a cab. I was willing to pay a bit more then a cab to get to the airport because I knew I could count on that uber to arrive at my house on time.

Uber and Lyft are not trying to be cost competitive with cabs; they are trying to be cost competitive with public transit.

Re: Uber, Lyft drivers manipulate fares at DCA causing artificial price surges

#77

Post by Jeff_Brown »

ardy42 wrote: post #54
gdhbcc wrote: post #5

I dont see how Lyft gets off calling this fraudulent. Seems to me it's the system working as intended, and as it should. Drivers dont want to drive for under a certain value, so they simply inform the app who adjusts the value to fulfill demand. Seems like its what you want to happen.

> I dont see how Lyft gets off calling this fraudulent. The workers are "defrauding" Capital out of greater-than-substance wages. It's bullshit, and they'll try to re-frame in in terms of customers, but that's essentially their view.

Not exactly. The percentage that Lyft takes is the same, so Lyft actually makes more money from these price-hikes. The ones suffering are the passengers.

Re: Uber, Lyft drivers manipulate fares at DCA causing artificial price surges

#78

Post by seanmcdirmid »

lexs wrote: post #18
wlesieutre wrote: post #12

News flash: if you go out of your way to classify your entire workforce as contractors, you don't get to decide when they work or not. It turns out this has consequences on both sides. If Lyft wants to decide when their drivers are working, there's a process for this: 1) Hire employees 2) Give them a schedule 3) Pay them hourly plus mileage

And suddenly Uber/Lyft are like any other Taxi company just with a massive valuation.

> And suddenly Uber/Lyft are like any other Taxi company just with a massive valuation.

What taxi companies have drivers as actual employees and not independent contractors?

Re: Uber, Lyft drivers manipulate fares at DCA causing artificial price surges

#79

Post by CPLX »

When low paid workers coordinate their efforts to increase their pay it's called an "artificial price surge" and allegations of fraud are thrown around.

When highly paid executives, investors, and board members coordinate their efforts to increase their pay what does the media call it?

Re: Uber, Lyft drivers manipulate fares at DCA causing artificial price surges

#80

Post by eropple »

Jeff_Brown wrote: post #77
ardy42 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I dont see how Lyft gets off calling this fraudulent. The workers are "defrauding" Capital out of greater-than-substance wages. It's bullshit, and they'll try to re-frame in in terms of customers, but that's essentially their view.

Not exactly. The percentage that Lyft takes is the same, so Lyft actually makes more money from these price-hikes. The ones suffering are the passengers.

This assumes an inelastic demand curve. DCA has other options, such as taxis.

(edited s/elastic/inelastic - I dun goofed. Thanks, Erik!)

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