71–80 of 420 posts
Why is it so difficult to admit Node.js did the package thing right, by keeping a local folder just for the app, isolation from other apps with zero effort?
I was rather shocked to find that python didn’t have a full-featured crypto library included in its standard lib. The alternatives all ended up being unmaintained or maintained by small groups (which makes trust in the soundness difficult). I tapped our security team, who were in disbelief, but ultimately they gave up to and I wrote the software in go instead.
You want pyca/cryptography. The last thing in the world you want is a standard crypto library that no experts are enthusiastic about maintaining. Golang had an unfair advantage here, because the language team included cryptography engineers. It would be weird if most languages had the same kind of crypto in their stdlibs. I think there is in general nothing wrong with a language ecosystem where key parts of the whole…
I recently hacked together some Python to process MIDI files. Should I have used this:
https://pypi.org/project/MIDIUtil/
or this:
https://pypi.org/project/mxm.midifile/
or this:
https://mido.readthedocs.io/en/latest/
or this?
https://github.com/vishnubob/python-midi
A well-maintained and thoughtfully curated stdlib makes these choices for you - which is one less thing to worry about, and can be a significant time saver.
When I first used python like 20 years ago I was blown away by how much functionality was blown in, and it can be annoying using languages where even the most basic functionality involves downloading 50 packages from the internet, but on the other hand the standard library does seem to be a mess now.
I found that attractive when I first learned Python, but when I (much more recently) started picking up Rust, I was blown away by how easy and normal it is to use external packages: the build tool and package manager are the same thing and shipped with the language, the hello-world-equivalent docs assume you're using it, and even the Rust compiler and standard library themselves can (carefully) depend on external pac…
Obviously it doesn't apply to everyone, and it certainly doesn't apply to most startups or open source developers, but I spent most of the last 20 years working in environments where you have to get permission for every third party library you bring on to the network. Many networks were essentially "airgapped", so it's not like you could just ignore the rules. The bureaucratic process alone meant that we preferred large bundles like Anaconda or Qt. Trying to use Cargo as it is typically used and documented would be a complete non-starter.
When I first used python like 20 years ago I was blown away by how much functionality was blown in, and it can be annoying using languages where even the most basic functionality involves downloading 50 packages from the internet, but on the other hand the standard library does seem to be a mess now.
I found that attractive when I first learned Python, but when I (much more recently) started picking up Rust, I was blown away by how easy and normal it is to use external packages: the build tool and package manager are the same thing and shipped with the language, the hello-world-equivalent docs assume you're using it, and even the Rust compiler and standard library themselves can (carefully) depend on external pac…
So Rust can get away more easily without having support for things like command line parsing in the standard library, because it isn't really trying to support situations where it would be inconvenient to give your program its own project directory and Cargo.toml and all.
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how is that an excuse for being uncivil? if you're burnt out then don't attend the talk? simple.
From my own past experience with depression, it’s not as simple as “I’ll just stop doing all the things that have kept me in motion until now.” This is not meant to speculate on van Rossum’s health, just trying to point out that there are situations where apparent rudeness may be out of the person’s immediate control.
She seems to be advocating that Python do pretty much what Perl has ended up doing, which is "we have some batteries, but we haven't been adding new ones for a decade or more". The reasons are similar, it's a constant drag on core compiler development to need to support various batteries included that most core contributors aren't going to care about, so it's easier to tell people "use CPAN". There was even talk of "…
And perl solved that perfectly: just let the OS/distro solve the 100s of packages. And it have been solved, despite you claiming otherwise on your last paragraph. When did you have to use cpan in a modern system? Compare that to how many times you had to use pip. Now, if you use a crappy OS or distro (or god forbid, some container built by you have no idea who on top of nobody knows what) then yeah, you are bound to…
Well yeah. A sizable amount of new software is still being written in Python. But when I use Perl software (besides my custom scripts), it's always stuff that's old enough that the distribution is carrying packages for it.
If you disagree, please name a significant new software written in Perl that was released in the last, say, 5 years.
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Yea. I'm using Rust at the moment for fun and the amount of things not in the standard library is crazy to me. What? There is no built-in dictionary? What do I use instead and where is it? Edit: based off of all the replies below, everyone understands the validity of what I'm trying to say, but also have fortunately pointed out my admittedly grevious error of not knowing you can just import hashmap from stdlib. The e…
Dictionary in the python sense? There are two! https://doc.rust-lang.org/std/collections/struct.HashMap.htm... https://doc.rust-lang.org/std/collections/struct.BTreeMap.ht...
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yea. I'm using Rust at the moment for fun and the amount of things not in the standard library is crazy to me. What? There is no built-in dictionary? What do I use instead and where is it? Edit: based off of all the replies below, everyone understands the validity of what I'm trying to say, but also have fortunately pointed out my admittedly grevious error of not knowing you can just import hashmap from stdlib. The e…
You mean a map? It's in the standard library.
I didn't know it was included in stdlib (I really thought it wasn't) and feel idiotic now. It is still odd (having a primarily scripting background and not coming from the systems side) that I have to include what seems to be essentially an import statement at the top. I guess it is a lot more efficient that way though. Thanks for pointing out my error!
Why is it so difficult to admit Node.js did the package thing right, by keeping a local folder just for the app, isolation from other apps with zero effort?
NPM installs (and downloads?) a copy of each package for each project. This is the wrong thing to do.
Wow this is not the conduct I expect from a language creator. I don’t care if you’re Albert Einstein. Humility and being able to take criticism is far more admirable to me.