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Keybase and Stellar is live for everyone

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Re: Keybase and Stellar is live for everyone

#71

I won't repost my entire comment here, but I noted in 2017 on Hacker News some pretty shady stuff going on with Stellar/XLM and their customer support team / developers. You can read the entire account here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15935583#15936174 It starts with this: --- I was given 6000 XLM and I left it in their official wallet for years. On May 12th, 2017 I wrote them an email asking why my wallet,…

Same here. It was my first and only entry into the coin space. I figured I would let the coins sit there and see what happens. Good thing I didn't try to acquire more coins because I ran into the same issue. It was a cheap first lesson (free) but it has kept me from wading in further anywhere else.

I think this goes back to a critical point in the crypto space.

If you don't have your key pair, then you don't own the coins. I think everyone who lost coins had wallet issues. Maybe there would still have been issues even if you had your key pair, but the general rule still stands.

Back when Stellar got stared, you had to use the API to create a key pair and then you needed the API again to interact with that address (send coins from it.)

Re: Keybase and Stellar is live for everyone

#72
post #25
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The defense is to point out some genuinely useful work going on in the space that doesn't revolve around speculation.

* Bitcoin's lightning network * Stable coins (Dai, USDC, etc) * What Keybase just built (much easier way to manage keys for wallets) * Makerdao's decentralized loan system The first 2 enable you to transfer value over the internet in a cheap and non-revokable way (internet cash). The third one simplifies wallet management for the first two. The last one opens up a bunch of new opportunities for borrowing money withou…

Sorry but calling Bitcoin's Lightning network "internet cash" is incredibly misleading. Bitcoin is "internet cash". At least it used to be.

Bitcoin's version of the lightning network is a Rube Goldberg machine bolted onto a payment network and dressed up to look like a scaling solution.

Lightning network is a super cool technology but BTC's implementation of it suffers from crippling flaws that make it useless for Lightning's most promising use cases. Lightning network was designed to be a micropayment solution built on top of a low-fee base layer. It requires that low-fee base layer to deliver on it's promises. Since it's been built on a high-fee base layer (BTC), transaction routing is now a problem that can only be solved by sending your lightning payment through a large and highly connected lightning node and never closing your payment channels (because re-opening them costs too much). This effectively eliminates the p2p aspect that is required for "lightning bitcoin" to function as cash.

Instead, BTC lightning network has to function more like traditional banks where the node operator is the bank and the payment channel is the user's account. The transactions are like really fast SWIFT/ACH transfers except they only go through if the sender's account meets the necessary liquidity constraints. Those liquidity constraints actually make btc lightning transactions more like purchases made using a secured/prepaid credit card because you must have money tied up so that you can spend money. And like a bank, the lightning node gets to decide if they want to route your transaction to it's final destination.

It's also incredibly likely ( and arguably confirmed based on https://www.fincen.gov/sites/default/files/2019-05/FinCEN%20... ) that BTC lightning nodes will be subject to the same rules and regulations as a traditional bank. If so, it's yet another centralizing force on BTC's version of Lightning. Don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking banks here. Banks are useful and KYC/AML are often good things. I'm just saying, "lightning btc" couldn't be further from cash.

Re: Keybase and Stellar is live for everyone

#73
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As to point (2), I think this keybase/stellar integration is the solution to the problem that crypto has been looking for. If I want to give a friend money, I can hand them cash, but I have to be in the same room as them. I can transfer that cash in other ways, but I need to trust the middlemen. I can also use a bank to send them money, but I have to know their details, which are sensitive information. I can use one…

> I can also use a bank to send them money, but I have to know their details, which are sensitive information. PayID [0] was standardised in Australia a while back, standardising what the banks were already doing. At least here, knowing someone's details is something from the past. A PayID can _only_ receive. A PayID is a number - not necessarily a phone number you own, but many people opted for that route, but keep…

I know, and I use PayID frequently; but it has shortcomings, mostly that nobody seems to know about it. Additionally, PayID only works within Australia, and effectively only to people you know personally (mobile numbers are not typically public information).

I love PayID for what it is, but it could be well improved in my first example, and doesn’t work at all for the latter.

Re: Keybase and Stellar is live for everyone

#74

As a relatively long-time Keybase user, I went in and set up my Stellar wallet on my phone. There does not appear to be any way to fund this wallet, though. Reading the comments here, I guess I'd have to buy Stellar on some other exchange and ... transfer it to my wallet? (So I'd have a wallet on an exchange, and a wallet on Keybase?) This is not good UX.

So how can I anonymously exchange Bitcoin for Stellar/Lumen?

CoinBase Pro is useless. They want to know too much.

Re: Keybase and Stellar is live for everyone

#75

I'm not convinced that association with cryptocurrency does much to give the appearance of credibility, trustworthiness and stability to keybase.io I associate crypto with shonk, which puts keybase.io in the "this is a crypto thing? Hmmm.... shonky." category. I guess it depends on what the corporate goals of keybase.io are - I think it was identity management or something rather being a crypto player. edit: I should…

Understandable. But you have to consider that the Stellar foundation has been supporting keybase.io financially.

Also, your association of cryptocurrencies with scams is understandable given the sorry state of e.g. the Ethereum and EOS ecosystems which are dominated by get rich quick schemes, pyramid schemes, gambling apps, and other stuff. Not exactly enthusiastic about that myself.

However, among its peers, Stellar is relatively respectable in the sense that it has some serious corporate partners (i.e. normal legal entities in normal jurisdictions) and quite a few stable coins issued by fintech companies for the purpose of supporting international payments. And with support/involvement of regulators in many countries.

Additionally there seem to be some serious use cases emerging. The most significant of those would be IBM building a SEPA competitor on top of stellar with dozens of international banks. But there are other applications as well.

Keybase associating with Stellar is not necessarily a bad deal for them as they get money without giving away shares (presumably). And given the nature of their technology, crypto wallets are a natural use case for them as the whole point of their platform is making key management usable for end users and crypto wallets are literally nothing else than key pairs.

Re: Keybase and Stellar is live for everyone

#76
post #29
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I associate crypto with shonk, which puts keybase.io in the "this is a crypto thing? Hmmm.... shonky." category. This is unnecessary bias, though. If you look past the drama, cryptocurrency is a powerful and useful invention.

> cryptocurrency is a powerful and useful invention. Can you explain? Intellectually interesting? No question. But powerful or useful (I consider them synonyms)? I'd like to see some actual examples. This is genuine curiosity, not snark. I'm on the board of a blockchain startup who has a legitimate application for a blockchain -- an aspirin. But this application could have been done 20 years ago if there hadn't been…

Sibling comments to this one have already written down most of what I would say myself. In short, I think having a way to transfer money anonymously and without control from the government an especially important capability.

Re: Keybase and Stellar is live for everyone

#77
post #39

Stellar is a pretty cool platform. Here are some features: Any node can issue tokens pretty easily. Tokens are basically IOUs and come with counterparty risk. For example you want to issue tokens for carbon emission trading, you can do that with a few lines of code but people have to trust you to redeem them for whatever they are worth at the end. The only asset that comes without counterparty risk is the native asse…

My biggest problem with Stellar (and Ripple, which it was forked from) is that it's a centralized blockchain. Transactions are public, but you cannot become a block-producing node (validator). This allows censorship if they do not like the person proposing transactions, or the transaction itself, and could rollback if they wanted. I'm a much bigger fan of Cosmos and (future) PoS Ethereum, which is permissionless to b…

This is one of those things that comes up frequently in discussions about Stellar. It's simply not true. It's neither centralized nor limited to a few partners. You can start your own validator easily. The way the Stellar consensus protocol works is that when you do that, you specify which other validators to trust.

The consensus in the network of validators is based on the network of who is trusting whom. Right now there are a few dozen companies running validators: https://www.stellar.org/developers/guides/nodes.html that trust each other directly or indirectly.

Most of the companies running these validators are doing so because they have business dependencies on the network. Running a validator is not actually free and comes with a bit of devops overhead. So you need a good business reason to do so as mining is just not a thing in Stellar. If you are doing business on Stellar, trusting your direct business partners is probably a smart thing. E.g. IBM and the banks they are partnering likely have ironclad contracts between them and good reasons to trust each other's validators. Most nodes also trust the SDF and trusting additional nodes for resilience is basically something you can do based on your judgment of who is running those nodes and how well they are running them (up time).

Lots of new nodes start with a default configuration that includes the Stellar foundation's own nodes. This is a bit of a problem. Stellar foundation is actually considering shutting down their own validators at this point as there are now plenty of reliable other validators around that they don't need to be there by default anymore. Over time, the number of validators and companies using them is likely to grow substantially. The network gets more robust as the network grows organically.

Of course for a malicious node the trick is getting others to trust you back. This only happens when people actually trust you. This makes e.g. 51% attacks really hard because you can spin up all the nodes you want but if people think you are a scammer, your nodes won't have any decision power. Mostly that's a good thing. Stellar is very resilient against this kind of thing; unlike other networks.

Re: Keybase and Stellar is live for everyone

#78
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> cryptocurrency is a powerful and useful invention. Can you explain? Intellectually interesting? No question. But powerful or useful (I consider them synonyms)? I'd like to see some actual examples. This is genuine curiosity, not snark. I'm on the board of a blockchain startup who has a legitimate application for a blockchain -- an aspirin. But this application could have been done 20 years ago if there hadn't been…

Of course you don't understand, because you don't need them, you can't understand freedom of expression if you never had anything to say, you can't understand privacy if you never had anything to hide, if you were living in a country like mine, Argentina, you would understand immediately the incredibly useful thing that Bitcoin is. I have a Swiss bank in my pocket, in a country that steals all your savings every ten…

I really hope this statement gets people to think about the crypto realm in a different way. What you described is exactly why I see this as a tool for revolutionary progress.

Not so long ago, you would have had little to no option and would have been a victim of oppressive systems. This technology allowed you to overcome something people have been helplessly outmatched by for a hundred years.

I am glad you shared this and sincerely hope you the best.

Its worth noting that many "western" cultures are becoming more hostile to their citizens, removing privacy and many things our parents and grandparents took for granted. We should be embracing things that gives us privacy.

We already have banks and payment systems playing alongside thought police. Saying something that is dissent has gotten people to lose their bank accounts [0]. I am not condoning these actions by this example but I am saying its becoming more normal. There are also issues with patreon dropping people over online political affiliation.

I don't know how many here follow the global economy but if you do, you will see the US economy is in a dangerous place. This commenter talks about the central bank taking his money and that can happen here with something call "bail-ins" [1] which takes money from account holders in the event of another "too big to fail" moment.

This may have been in Argentina but people should realize, that although you may not feel you need it today, you very well could need it I'm your country soon.

[0] https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2019/02/financial-tyranny-c... [1] https://www.investopedia.com/articles/markets-economy/090716...

Re: Keybase and Stellar is live for everyone

#79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that crypto could be valuable. But, (1) the lightning network has been repeatedly attacked as unworkable trash and (2) there needs to be a reason to make crypto transactions other than drugs or vaguely crypto-anarchist philosophy. (b) Tether's recent scandal has made all stable coins fairly suspect. (d) The makerdao system has some pretty serious problems. High liquidation rates and skyrocketing fees both com…

> (1) the lightning network has been repeatedly attacked as unworkable trash [ Disclosure: I work on the lightning specification and one of the implementations ] I'm sure it has been attacked (because "cryptos, bro"), I'm disappointed that it made you dismiss it. FWIW, I switched from Linux Kernel development to developing Lightning after almost 20 years: I find it ambitious, high-potential and fascinating, as well a…

I don't mean to attack you. It's just that there is a large gap between well-engineered and easy to use.

I am 100% certain you're a better developer than I, and that lightning is not a result of poor engineering. But if a layman can't pick it up and use it in under 5 minutes, it's unworkable (if you're targeting laymen).

Crypto is full of genius engineers, and product folks, but I think there is (and always has been) a usability crisis.

Thanks for your work on both Linux and Lightning. I look forward to the day you can point to this comment on HN as being ridiculously dated.

Re: Keybase and Stellar is live for everyone

#80
post #13
post #4

When will open proof be available for everyone?

You mean this? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19639297

I mean how they say all that but refuse to add fediverse sites and others that don't share the political views of the founders of Keybase or the mainstream Mastodon crowd.
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