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Is Conference Room Air Making Us Dumber?

nytimes.com

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Re: Is Conference Room Air Making Us Dumber?

#71
post #11
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you recommend a CO2 monitor? How did you decide to purchase the model that you own?

I got this model several months back and have been really happy with it: https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B01FYWU2IS/ I got it to monitor CO2 levels in a house without central air. It's pretty amazing how quickly it rises without the air on or a window open. If the air in a room feels "stuffy", it's probably over 1000 ppm.

Yep, that's the one I have. It's fantastic.

Re: Is Conference Room Air Making Us Dumber?

#72
I've worked in modern steel and glass buildings in the Valley, and I've also worked in old (and drafty) converted warehouses in SF. I never really thought about it, but I definitely get more tired in the steel and glass buildings (which usually have inoperable windows).

I work at home now, and while my home is well sealed, I always try to crack the window in my office to let in some fresh air. I'll have to make an effort to do that even when the weather isn't as nice.

Re: Is Conference Room Air Making Us Dumber?

#73
post #15
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does air recirculation with increasing co2 compare to having to breath/smell car exhaust, cigarette smoke, etc through vents? I started doing recirculation as my default years ago due to that.

You don't need fresh on all the time, but for long trips I will switch to fresh for at least five minutes each hour. You just want to cycle the air in the cabin for less re-breathed air.

My tests with my meter don't imply that is correct. Almost immediately on recirculate the PPM goes up and stays there.

Re: Is Conference Room Air Making Us Dumber?

#75
post #10

I own a CO2 monitor and it is shocking how high it can get in a house with two people just existing. 800 ppm or more. Outside air is 410. In a car with air on recirculate, it was getting to >1220 ppm, a level that impairs decision making and lowers brain function. I try to drive with air on fresh from now on. I don’t doubt the air in our conference room with 20 people gets super high in CO2 as the meeting goes on, an…

How many plants are needed to counter this?

It's far more than you could ever plant, I suspect. I've been in legal marijuana grows in houses where it is nearly wall to wall massive growing plants under many 1000W bulbs and the CO2 still goes up when people go in the house and start breathing and moving around.

When we see science fiction movies and there is a tiny little area with plants that is supposed to be providing the multi-person crew with CO2 scrubbing and O2 generation, I think the size needed is vastly underestimated.

>A human breathes about 9.5 tonnes of air in a year, but oxygen only makes up about 23 percent of that air, by mass, and we only extract a little over a third of the oxygen from each breath. That works out to a total of about 740kg of oxygen per year. Which is, very roughly, seven or eight trees' worth.

from- https://www.sciencefocus.com/planet-earth/how-many-trees-doe...

Re: Is Conference Room Air Making Us Dumber?

#77

I own a CO2 monitor and it is shocking how high it can get in a house with two people just existing. 800 ppm or more. Outside air is 410. In a car with air on recirculate, it was getting to >1220 ppm, a level that impairs decision making and lowers brain function. I try to drive with air on fresh from now on. I don’t doubt the air in our conference room with 20 people gets super high in CO2 as the meeting goes on, an…

I picked up a CO2 monitor a while ago myself, and the biggest surprise was having it on in the morning in our bedroom with the doors closed. It was easily over 1000ppm IIRC. Ever since then I've made sure to set my AC system to run the "house fan" for 15 minutes or so every hour at night just to circulate the air in the house, and while the numbers went down significantly, anecdotally I swear that I wake up easier in…

I wonder what the number is for people who wear respirators for dust/fumes. There's the paper masks people are most familiar with and the charcoal canisters for working with chemicals. Since it's sealed off would it be even higher than a motorcycle helmet?

Re: Is Conference Room Air Making Us Dumber?

#78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> At 5 millibars (5,000 ppm), you would start breathing at a 10% elevated rate, which you probably wouldn’t notice. Wouldn't you? Won't you subconsciously notice and want to end the meeting faster? Imagine breathing at an elevated rate in a crowded room that lacks proper ventilation. There's more than co2 coming from the human body. People will begin sweating, farting, etc., and fill the air with all kinds of polluta…

You're referring to a psychological effect, he's referring to an autonomic. It's the same way the you don't tend to notice your heart rate increase and decrease as you move around unless it's major.

The opening post was about a psychological effect to which this poster responded "No. I wrote up the computations explaining why." and linked to a paper which had as a conclusion an increase in breathing rates.

My point is that a crowded room likely has more than one causes which could explain why productivity is lowered and decisions making worsened.

You won't notice an autonomic response but your brain likely will and it might very well answer by releasing adrenaline, cortisol, etc., and make you more anxious and stressed to encourage you to leave the environment that is causing the increased breathing rates.

Re: Is Conference Room Air Making Us Dumber?

#79

I own a CO2 monitor and it is shocking how high it can get in a house with two people just existing. 800 ppm or more. Outside air is 410. In a car with air on recirculate, it was getting to >1220 ppm, a level that impairs decision making and lowers brain function. I try to drive with air on fresh from now on. I don’t doubt the air in our conference room with 20 people gets super high in CO2 as the meeting goes on, an…

I picked up a CO2 monitor a while ago myself, and the biggest surprise was having it on in the morning in our bedroom with the doors closed. It was easily over 1000ppm IIRC. Ever since then I've made sure to set my AC system to run the "house fan" for 15 minutes or so every hour at night just to circulate the air in the house, and while the numbers went down significantly, anecdotally I swear that I wake up easier in…

> "house fan" for 15 minutes or so every hour at night just to circulate the air in the house,

Depending on your climate, this could significantly raise the humidity in your house. Reason is that moisture from the AC coil are wet after the AC turns off. Typically drips off into the pan until next time AC cycles.

If you run the fan you will then evaporate into the air circulating some of the moisture just removed.

Re: Is Conference Room Air Making Us Dumber?

#80
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My senior year, the high school installed blowers in each classroom. We were told it was required by a new California law. I’m not sure it was an improvement: the blowers were noisy and made the classrooms much less comfortable (colder in winter, warmer in summer; it was an older school and the HVAC systems weren’t great). Teachers constantly talked about how they wanted to destroy the blowers. I seriously doubt grad…

Buildings used to be much draughtier, so it wasn't so much an issue. My landlord at my old place was always adding new insulation. Co2 levels there would get really high with windows shut. My new apartment has much lower ambient co2. Both were built 100 years ago. I think people also used to leave windows open a bit, even in winter. My (Canadian) grandma always did, and I hear it was the custom in Germany. Modern bui…

Definitely true. You can measure how leaky a building is by sealing it up, blowing air in the door, and measuring how the pressure changes. If it’s very leaky the pressure doesn’t rise as much.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blower_door

We used to assume that you’d get enough fresh air from infiltration through accidental sources. With a better sealed building, that’s not always the case and you may need to deliberately bring in outside air. Heat recovery ventilation systems help to do this more efficiently than the inadvertent leaking method.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_recovery_ventilation

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