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It is perfectly OK to only code at work, you can have a life too

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Re: It is perfectly OK to only code at work, you can have a life too

#71

Post by JohnFen »

threwawasy1228 wrote: post #54

I hate that this has become so entrenched, and I hate that my previous jobs don't allow me to use samples from their codebase in my portfolio. I hate feeling like my github or bitbucket are sparse and this is somehow a sin. Just give me a takehome project and I will show you how I program, it is really that simple! Don't force me to waste my precious time making little toys in my spare time to potentially amuse someo…

> Just give me a takehome project and I will show you how I program, it is really that simple!

I once applied for a job where that was the entry exam: they gave you the specs for a program about a month in advance of your interviews and you were expected to bring in the solution you wrote. The task was intentionally extremely difficult (they specifically warned you about that).

Although I didn't get the job, I really did appreciate that approach to skills testing. I thought it was brilliant.

Re: It is perfectly OK to only code at work, you can have a life too

#72

Post by JohnFen »

hatchnyc wrote: post #35
huffmsa wrote: post #18

Does a lawyer do law outside of billable hours? Some do pro-bono. But not the majority. Does a doctor practice medicine outside of his hours? Again, some work at free clinics, but generally no. Do veterinarians like it when you ask them to take a look at your cat when they're not in clinic? No. Almost always no. Work is work, leisure is leisure. If coding is leisure for you, that's great.

Many of my friends ended up becoming doctors, PAs, or nurses and medicine is basically all they talk about, especially the doctors. Their phones are overflowing with medical photos and articles. Get two or more of them together and you're not going to discuss anything besides their field. One volunteers for some Doctors Without Boarders type organization, another teaches classes at a university, I think they almost a…

> Many of my friends ended up becoming doctors, PAs, or nurses and medicine is basically all they talk about, especially the doctors.

Yes. It's the same with all of the engineers I know (and I suspect it's the same with all professions).

With my engineering friends, we had to set a rule that if we're at a social function that includes people not in our field, "talking shop" is expressly forbidden. This is to prevent a problem that had gotten out of control -- having a handful of people talking about arcane things that nobody else can understand, let alone are interested in.

Re: It is perfectly OK to only code at work, you can have a life too

#73

Post by JohnFen »

huffmsa wrote: post #28
dazzawazza wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All of those professions do plenty of hours of "work" outside of "billable hours". They all read professional publications in order to keep up with the progress their professions are making. In many cases this is a few hours a day of reading. For most this is a chore but it's part of being a professional in those professions.

Reading papers isn't the same as doing the job though. I read mostly technical content related to software dev / general tech, but I rarely create software outside of work.

I don't see the same sharp divide as you.

Studying, practicing, and improving your skills are just as much "doing the job" as actually writing code. It's all an essential part of production in the end.

Re: It is perfectly OK to only code at work, you can have a life too

#74

Post by JohnFen »

segmondy wrote: post #48

No it's not, not if you want to want to claim to be a true professional. I have never met a professional that only engages in their craft at work only. Professionals practice their craft all time especially outside work. Work time is game time. Work time is not the time to engage in Research but strictly development. Unless you work for an R&D lab. It is the engaging in research instead of development that's the caus…

> No it's not, not if you want to want to claim to be a true professional.

I disagree, although I suspect that I don't know what you mean by "true professional".

> Look at the very best in the industry, just think of them, name em.

Sure, but you don't have to be the very best in the industry to be a legit professional. By definition, the overwhelming majority of highly skilled engineers are not the very best in the industry.

Re: It is perfectly OK to only code at work, you can have a life too

#75

Post by sridca »

> There is often pressure inside Software development for Software developers to code outside of work hours.

Funny. What I actually noticed is the pressure to _not_ code outside of work hours. :-P

It feels like hobbyist hacking is increasingly falling out of place, even to the point of gaining antagonistic feelings about it.

Re: It is perfectly OK to only code at work, you can have a life too

#76

Post by pojzon »

dragonwriter wrote: post #62
huffmsa wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Whoever said programming side projects should be “full-stress cases”? That's what the context is here. There's a notion in the software development profession that you should have a side project which you put near full-time hours and / or effort into. Because you love coding so much you can't stop. Be it your future start-up, or contributing to an open source project (or 3). Studying law is equivalent to reading th…

> That's what the context is here. I disagree. > There's a notion in the software development profession that you should have a side project which you put near full-time hours and / or effort into. There's a common notion that you should be doing practical learning, including side projects, outside of “normal” paid work. It is far less common, however, to encounter the idea that it should be near full-time hours (and…

My wife is an excellent lawyer. She spends "NOWHERE" the same amount of time as I do to stay in touch with whats happening in the field.

She has to read new laws once in a while (sometimes even once per year). To be relevant I as a Software Developer have to read about new stuff DAILY, while writing to my own blog, do side projects from time to time and learn other stuff i need for my current work.

I would not be lyin when i say being a good software developer (in the eyes of industry) costs you around 20h of work extra per week.

Re: It is perfectly OK to only code at work, you can have a life too

#77

Post by foobarchu »

zachsnow wrote: post #47
badfrog wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that's what you want to do with your time, cool. This article is aimed at people who don't want to do that but feel like they have to.

The article states that by not coding at home you can “have a life, too”, implying you won’t have one if you code at home. This idea is repeated in the article, suggesting to me that it is more than just clickbait. That’s dumb. Of course you can “have a life”, regardless of whether your hobbies include something you also get paid for. Denigrating folks as not having a “life” for this reason, even as a rhetorical devi…

I think you might be reading into it too much. It's not an angry article, and it never dismisses people who do like to code outside of work. The title is meant to support people who don't want to code in their free time. Maybe they chose those particular words poorly, but it doesn't take away from the overall premise.

The author even says, after listing activities one might do outside work, "But is it really necessary? That is for you to decide." It's about not needing to feel obligated to be into all that, not disallowing it.

Re: It is perfectly OK to only code at work, you can have a life too

#78

Post by HeyLaughingBoy »

pradn wrote: post #50
fuball63 wrote: post #24

Semi related to this, if you do code after work (because you enjoy it), it's OK to code without it being a "startup". I often get bogged down with "how do I monetize, market, and maintain this", which just kills my motivation. Just because something isn't marketed and monetized doesn't make it invalid; outside of work coding has brought me numerous benefits: - Learning new things. Not because I feel like if I don't I…

I think it's only the HN crowd that tries to look at side-projects from the monetization angle. (How else do you explain the frequent 'what's your side-business' posts? Also, this is a VC's site after all.) There are many computing cultures - people making games for gamejams, working on quines, writing code for GameBoys, contributing to Firefox, Arduino hackers. Maybe finding one of those groups will change your mind…

FWIW, I make money hacking on Arduino :-)

Re: It is perfectly OK to only code at work, you can have a life too

#79

Post by cik2e »

bovermyer wrote: post #16
Tor3 wrote: post #12

Well.. this assumes that coding (all coding?) is a burden.. I agree with the article in that coding _for_ work, outside of normal work hours, isn't something to strive for. I did that a lot when I was young, but that was not only when it was necessary due to the strained time schedules we had then, it was also because I literally hungered for it. I needed to. So I would go back to work after dinner and hack away to f…

On personal projects I have entered a flow state so deep that, when my wife interrupts me to remind me I skipped breakfast and now it's lunchtime, it takes me a few moments to actually be able to understand her. It's like she's speaking a foreign language. I have never had that happen at a day job.

This is a perfect way to get into intermittent fasting!

Re: It is perfectly OK to only code at work, you can have a life too

#80

Post by PhasmaFelis »

rich-tea wrote: post #57
PhasmaFelis wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obviously. But no one is being pressured to not code at home by their peers and employers.

Except when they imply that it's "not having a life".

Some guy with a blog accidentally implying a mild insult is hardly the same thing.
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