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Jack Ma Again Endorses Extreme Overtime as Furor Rages On
71–80 of 264 posts
Re: Jack Ma Again Endorses Extreme Overtime as Furor Rages On
#72I assert that there are a great numbers of CEOs who would absolutely love their employees to be working 996 without overtime pay, only most of them won't admit it directly. We cannot expect CEOs to be paragons of virtue - part of the reason they succeed because they discard virtue in favor of profit. Having said that, the solution is not simple. In places like China, it's probably up to the government.
Re: Jack Ma Again Endorses Extreme Overtime as Furor Rages On
#73In some way our brains doesn't seem to be wired for getting rich and famous, most people go very wrong. Being a good and intelligent human being is very different from having just a lot of money and luck.
Re: Jack Ma Again Endorses Extreme Overtime as Furor Rages On
#74It’s interesting to compare the Bloomberg article with this one from the South China Morning Post, titled “Alibaba founder Jack Ma says companies forcing staff to work overtime are ‘foolish’”. Two articles reporting on the same statements and drawing completely different conclusions. It’s getting harder to find the truth. [1]: https://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/3006127/alib...
Apparently, SCMP is owned by Alibaba. This could be interpreted as a conflict of interest to report anything about Alibaba founder in this context.
Shouldn’t that make them even more likely to express his actual opinion?
Re: Jack Ma Again Endorses Extreme Overtime as Furor Rages On
#75It’s interesting to compare the Bloomberg article with this one from the South China Morning Post, titled “Alibaba founder Jack Ma says companies forcing staff to work overtime are ‘foolish’”. Two articles reporting on the same statements and drawing completely different conclusions. It’s getting harder to find the truth. [1]: https://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/3006127/alib...
Journalists making a story more controversial by tailoring which bits of a speech to quote? How incredibly unusual.
Oh wait, no. The other thing. The thing about never trusting anything you read, especially if it was written by someone who has something to gain by manipulating your emotions.
Re: Jack Ma Again Endorses Extreme Overtime as Furor Rages On
#76Jack Ma's comment on this matter is full of logical fallacy. Forcing employees to stick to the 996 schedule with no overtime pay is not equivalent to someone finding their own passion and work restless towards their own goal. He somehow mixed up these two completely different things while avoided talking about the lack of overtime pay or even basic respect for employees in many corporations. Labeling people who deman…
> Labeling people who demand reasonable work-life balance as "slackers" or lazy is utterly disgusting. Worth clarifying that the "slackers" comment came from JD.com's founder Richard Liu, not Jack Ma. edit: removed comments on whether he endorses it or not since it seems like there are contradicting statements from him. My current impression is that he disagrees with forced overtime but wants his employees to work si…
I actually read Jack Ma's initial memo on this matter in Chinese. His stance was pretty clear that he endorses 996. He later "clarified" that he disagrees with this sentiment after people became enraged by his words.
Re: Jack Ma Again Endorses Extreme Overtime as Furor Rages On
#77Jack Ma's comment on this matter is full of logical fallacy. Forcing employees to stick to the 996 schedule with no overtime pay is not equivalent to someone finding their own passion and work restless towards their own goal. He somehow mixed up these two completely different things while avoided talking about the lack of overtime pay or even basic respect for employees in many corporations. Labeling people who deman…
996 is fine if you're a founder of a company. It's not okay for ill-compensated workers that will never become billionaires. We don't have much time on this planet. Why should he expect others to be droning slaves for him? People should enjoy what little life they have, not spend most of their time as cogs in a machine.
>996 is fine if you’re a founder
Is it?
You have production access to the company’s most important relationships. If you’re falling asleep in meetings or just unable to exercise emotional intelligence, that seems pretty bad for the company.
EDIT: falling asleep in meetings is bad, not good.
Re: Jack Ma Again Endorses Extreme Overtime as Furor Rages On
#78It’s interesting to compare the Bloomberg article with this one from the South China Morning Post, titled “Alibaba founder Jack Ma says companies forcing staff to work overtime are ‘foolish’”. Two articles reporting on the same statements and drawing completely different conclusions. It’s getting harder to find the truth. [1]: https://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/3006127/alib...
Journalists making a story more controversial by tailoring which bits of a speech to quote? How incredibly unusual. Oh wait, no. The other thing. The thing about never trusting anything you read, especially if it was written by someone who has something to gain by manipulating your emotions.
What does a badly paid Bloomberg reporter have to gain by making me feel like Jack Ma is a mean person?
Re: Jack Ma Again Endorses Extreme Overtime as Furor Rages On
#79Jack Ma will be surprised to find out that it doesn't matter how many hours you spend at the office. Actual productive activities will total only 2-3 hours per day. So spending 12 hours per day at the office actually means more time for social media, news sites, gossip, etc (i'm not going to dwell on the negative effects of his comments since they're well understood - less time spent at the office = better productivi…
> Jack Ma will be surprised to find out that it doesn't matter how many hours you spend at the office.
Yes, the richest self-made man in China will soon be lectured by a random commenter on the Internet about how he got it all wrong.
Re: Jack Ma Again Endorses Extreme Overtime as Furor Rages On
#80Jack Ma's comment on this matter is full of logical fallacy. Forcing employees to stick to the 996 schedule with no overtime pay is not equivalent to someone finding their own passion and work restless towards their own goal. He somehow mixed up these two completely different things while avoided talking about the lack of overtime pay or even basic respect for employees in many corporations. Labeling people who deman…
Worked at Alibaba. Not trying to defend the company, just offering my observation.
They do work much longer hour as compared to most American companies (like Google, I worked at too), even longer than the average Chinese ones. However, 9-to-9 doesn't mean people work 12 hour straight and nobody forcing anyone to stay at work until 9. Chinese work schedule includes 30 minutes to 1 hour extra napping time at noon, and Alibaba has on-campus canteens and facilities so employees go gym/game after dinner then back to work a little longer before leaving.
When I was working there I usually leave right after dinner so the actual work hour was around 8.5-9 hours a day. And our team never work on weekends (except for around 11.11 the annual shopping craze). However I do work at night and weekends at home, voluntarily.
They do pay well though.