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Tesla Shakes Up Model 3 Lineup

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Re: Tesla Shakes Up Model 3 Lineup

#71

Post by gibybo »

twoodfin wrote: post #22
pdq wrote: post #12

Per the new lease: "Please note, customers who choose leasing over owning will not have the option to purchase their car at the end of the lease, because with full autonomy coming in the future via an over-the-air software update, we plan to use those vehicles in the Tesla ride-hailing network." Elon once again promising fully autonomous vehicles in 3 years. Also, isn't this a rental? A lease normally has a residual,…

Anyone want to lay odds on these cars ending up in a “certified pre-owned” program instead? This seems like a scheme to both boost future new car sales and effectively “sell” the same car twice.

If I could bet $100 to win $1 that they don't end up in a self-driving fleet at the end of the lease, I would.

Re: Tesla Shakes Up Model 3 Lineup

#72

Post by azhenley »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #60
azhenley wrote: post #55

This article makes the change sound negative and confusing. But reading the original Tesla announcement [1], it all seems reasonable. People were buying the Standard Plus model six times more often than the Standard model, so they got rid of it. Good. [1] https://www.tesla.com/blog/update-our-vehicle-lineup

Baloney. I'm sure lots of people who even wanted to buy the Standard model were put off because they never saw any actual deliveries of the 35k vehicle.

As a Model 3 owner, I'm glad that they regularly shake things up. I want them adapting fast rather than waiting long periods of time to make changes.

Re: Tesla Shakes Up Model 3 Lineup

#73

Post by hn_throwaway_99 »

Someone1234 wrote: post #56
twoodfin wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anyone want to lay odds on these cars ending up in a “certified pre-owned” program instead? This seems like a scheme to both boost future new car sales and effectively “sell” the same car twice.

Unless they completely replaced the cells in the battery packs, I'd pass on a pre-owned EV. Even modern battery packs degrade year on year.

I completely disagree (and FWIW I own a used Chevy Volt): https://cleantechnica.com/2018/04/16/tesla-batteries-have-90...

Also, lots of cars come off lease with under 50k miles on it, so no reason to think the car would just be discounted by the relatively small amount of lowered battery capacity at this mileage.

Re: Tesla Shakes Up Model 3 Lineup

#74

Post by trickstra »

_red wrote: post #39
pdq wrote: post #12

Per the new lease: "Please note, customers who choose leasing over owning will not have the option to purchase their car at the end of the lease, because with full autonomy coming in the future via an over-the-air software update, we plan to use those vehicles in the Tesla ride-hailing network." Elon once again promising fully autonomous vehicles in 3 years. Also, isn't this a rental? A lease normally has a residual,…

I have yet speak to any experienced embedded developer who actually thinks "full autonomy" is remotely possible in the near/mid term. The suggestions that it is possible, seems to come mainly from junior developers and snake-oil salesman. We don't even have "full autonomous" trains, planes, or trucks yet.

how do you call those subway lines without driver cabin? They are in service for a number of years in a couple of cities around the world

Re: Tesla Shakes Up Model 3 Lineup

#75

Post by aiCeivi9 »

metalliqaz wrote: post #31
FireBeyond wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Other than the "The car will be able to self-drive, coast to coast, this year" back in Jan/Feb, you mean?

that's not the same thing as "fully autonomous"

https://www.theverge.com/2016/10/19/13341100/tesla-self-driv...

> Musk also promised a demonstration of a fully autonomous drive from Los Angeles to New York by the end of 2017

As in "without the need for a single touch from the driver". Doesn't really matter, AFAIK they are nowhere close.

Re: Tesla Shakes Up Model 3 Lineup

#76

Post by njarboe »

_red wrote: post #39
pdq wrote: post #12

Per the new lease: "Please note, customers who choose leasing over owning will not have the option to purchase their car at the end of the lease, because with full autonomy coming in the future via an over-the-air software update, we plan to use those vehicles in the Tesla ride-hailing network." Elon once again promising fully autonomous vehicles in 3 years. Also, isn't this a rental? A lease normally has a residual,…

I have yet speak to any experienced embedded developer who actually thinks "full autonomy" is remotely possible in the near/mid term. The suggestions that it is possible, seems to come mainly from junior developers and snake-oil salesman. We don't even have "full autonomous" trains, planes, or trucks yet.

Would an auto-car that crashed at a rate 1/10th of humans be a successful "full autonomous" vehicle? You could save 30000 lives a year in the US by deploying such vehicles and probably more due to knock-on effects. But that would be about 10 auto-car deaths/per day. No way that works with the current media.

Unfortunately, it seems many people are not going to accept auto-cars with less than airplane like safety levels. Of course that will never happen. So yes, "full autonomous" vehicles are a long way off (probably forever), unless someone (Waymo?, Tesla?) can show they are much safer and some kind of national or state level laws are passed to restrict the legal liability of the makers and owners of such vechiles. Sort of like how ski resorts would not exist without special laws restricting liablity.

Re: Tesla Shakes Up Model 3 Lineup

#77

Post by trickstra »

sagarm wrote: post #53
_red wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have yet speak to any experienced embedded developer who actually thinks "full autonomy" is remotely possible in the near/mid term. The suggestions that it is possible, seems to come mainly from junior developers and snake-oil salesman. We don't even have "full autonomous" trains, planes, or trucks yet.

I'm skeptical of autonomy in three years myself, but embedded engineers are hardly a convincing authority on the subject.

Were you also skeptical about landing orbital rockets 5 years ago?

Re: Tesla Shakes Up Model 3 Lineup

#78

Post by linuxftw »

legitster wrote: post #26

I get the strong impression that even as a loss leader, the $35,000 figure was based on some back of envelope calculations. We know that they have had to expand or increase the cost in several ways since they started production. I know they really want to make the Model T of electric cars, but it took about a decade of development for Ford to deliver one under $500. And I don't think Tesla has quite mastered the scie…

I believe it was an outright lie, an effort to solicit deposits and lure people into a bait-and-switch of higher priced models. All evidence to date suggests I'm right. Of course, they're never going to come out and say 'we fooled you' but I don't know what level of evidence people need before they reach the conclusion for themselves.

Re: Tesla Shakes Up Model 3 Lineup

#79

Post by SketchySeaBeast »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #54
FireBeyond wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Other than the "The car will be able to self-drive, coast to coast, this year" back in Jan/Feb, you mean?

It’s not unreasonable to heavily critique the fact that Tesla deadlines are blown repeatedly, and yet who among us has gone from 0 to 300k+ vehicles manufacturer and sold per year in 12 years and delivered an EV into an elliptical orbit with a privately developed heavy lift vehicle? Don’t say something is impossible while someone else is delivering, slowly and missed deadlines or not. @sbov (deleted reply while I was…

Aren't those solved problems though? Like, you're talking manufacturing and scaling up production, and there are other examples of heavy lift vehicles. While they are absolutely great accomplishments, it's tweaks on previous formulas.

There are no fully autonomous cars, he'd have to break entirely new ground for that.

Re: Tesla Shakes Up Model 3 Lineup

#80

Post by crsv »

xmpir wrote: post #62

So I guess jailbreaking Teslas will become a thing at some point in the future. If all the limits are software only people will find ways to use the car they own in the way they want...

And suddenly the true context of their hacking competitions around their software platform make even more sense...
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