Income-sharing agreements let students trade future earnings for investment • Hacker News Board

Re: Income-sharing agreements let students trade future earnings for investment

#71

Post by jedmeyers » Wed, Apr 10, 2019, 3:58 PM UTC

ChrisClark wrote: post #68

jki275 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what is "free"? There is no "free", it just means I have to pay for it. I prefer to pay for my own responsibilities, not for people to get underwater basketweaving degrees.

And this is exactly what's wrong with the US right now. No one cares to help anyone else. Even in healthcare! "I have my money, if they die it's because they chose to be poor."

> No one cares to help anyone else.

If people in Europe cared to help their money would not have been taken by force via taxes.

Re: Income-sharing agreements let students trade future earnings for investment

#72

Post by peteradio » Wed, Apr 10, 2019, 4:00 PM UTC

ceejayoz wrote: post #51

empath75 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just make student loans dischargable in bankruptcy again, problem solved.

Well, one problem solved, but likely creating (or restoring) others. Their non-dischargable status helps keep rates low(er) and allow folks who'd never qualify for a $100k loan otherwise get a degree. If we're gonna require a bachelors degree to work at McDonalds, it's probably time to treat undergraduate education like K-12; as an entirely publicly funded endeavour.

Perhaps 100k prices are propped up by low interest loans.

Re: Income-sharing agreements let students trade future earnings for investment

#73

Post by mijamo » Wed, Apr 10, 2019, 4:02 PM UTC

jki275 wrote: post #61

velcrovan wrote: post #60

Make the college free and provide students with a living stipend. Return higher education subsidies (and tax brackets) to their 1950s levels. Join the rest of the developed world.

what is "free"? There is no "free", it just means I have to pay for it. I prefer to pay for my own responsibilities, not for people to get underwater basketweaving degrees.

Plenty of things are free. Free does not mean it costs nothing, it means the client does not have to pay. Just like it's free for you to move in the city but the city still has to pay for roads.

Re: Income-sharing agreements let students trade future earnings for investment

#74

Post by jly » Wed, Apr 10, 2019, 4:03 PM UTC

jki275 wrote: post #61

velcrovan wrote: post #60

Make the college free and provide students with a living stipend. Return higher education subsidies (and tax brackets) to their 1950s levels. Join the rest of the developed world.

what is "free"? There is no "free", it just means I have to pay for it. I prefer to pay for my own responsibilities, not for people to get underwater basketweaving degrees.

We already collectively pay for K-12 education (in the US). I'd rather pay a little extra and see progress equalizing opportunity in a world where complex skills are increasingly needed to succeed. Anyone who was able to go to a great school and get a great education without mountains of debt because mom and dad subsidized it should count themselves among the lucky. Everyone capable should get this chance.

Public universities are run like businesses now, with trillion dollar endowments and tuition expanding at insane rates. My own state school tuition has gone up 250% in the last 20 years, outpacing inflation by several times. Something needs to change to bring this under control.

Re: Income-sharing agreements let students trade future earnings for investment

#75

Post by instaheat » Wed, Apr 10, 2019, 4:05 PM UTC

ChrisClark wrote: post #68

jki275 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what is "free"? There is no "free", it just means I have to pay for it. I prefer to pay for my own responsibilities, not for people to get underwater basketweaving degrees.

And this is exactly what's wrong with the US right now. No one cares to help anyone else. Even in healthcare! "I have my money, if they die it's because they chose to be poor."

Chris, I understand what you are saying. Of course we care to help other people. Collectively, the US might be seen as "selfish" but I think at a certain point, you have to understand you do not want to harm yourself just to help someone else. I really feel for people who will go to great lengths to help others, even if it reduces the quality of their own life just because it's the "right thing to do"

My mother-in-law is like this. She would let a convicted murderer that was down on their luck move in with her because "everyone deserves a roof over their head"

Again, I GET IT. But do you understand why some may have these selfish viewpoints?

Re: Income-sharing agreements let students trade future earnings for investment

#76

Post by simonsarris » Wed, Apr 10, 2019, 4:08 PM UTC

velcrovan wrote: post #60

Make the college free and provide students with a living stipend. Return higher education subsidies (and tax brackets) to their 1950s levels. Join the rest of the developed world.

Absolutely not, at least not without making college much more difficult. Otherwise it is just subsidizing adult daycare.

Many people do not belong in college and learn next to nothing, but go because they're shoo'ed along into it and the universities are in on the joke, and in on the money-making, and undergoing a drastic reduction of standards as a result.

Some data on just how bad higher ed is getting, from 2017: https://medium.com/@simon.sarris/higher-education-erodes-a7c...

Re: Income-sharing agreements let students trade future earnings for investment

#77

Post by harryh » Wed, Apr 10, 2019, 4:09 PM UTC

jostmey wrote: post #62

velcrovan wrote: post #60

Make the college free and provide students with a living stipend. Return higher education subsidies (and tax brackets) to their 1950s levels. Join the rest of the developed world.

And allow for students to file for bankruptcy on their student loans. That will force colleges to slash their insane budgets and stop building luxury dorms, new stadiums, and lay off the countless and unnecessary admins. Salaries for adjunct professors teaching the classes cannot get any lower, so the quality of education could remain about the same

Your proposal is unworkable because virtually everyone graduates from college with close to zero assets. No matter what someone's ability to repay their loans were, they would have a huge incentive to declare bankruptcy on the day they graduate to discharge the debt.

Re: Income-sharing agreements let students trade future earnings for investment

#78

Post by Jotra7 » Wed, Apr 10, 2019, 4:09 PM UTC

instaheat wrote: post #75

ChrisClark wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And this is exactly what's wrong with the US right now. No one cares to help anyone else. Even in healthcare! "I have my money, if they die it's because they chose to be poor."

Chris, I understand what you are saying. Of course we care to help other people. Collectively, the US might be seen as "selfish" but I think at a certain point, you have to understand you do not want to harm yourself just to help someone else. I really feel for people who will go to great lengths to help others, even if it reduces the quality of their own life just because it's the "right thing to do" My mother-in-la…

>Again, I GET IT. But do you understand why some may have these selfish viewpoints?

Psychopathy.

Re: Income-sharing agreements let students trade future earnings for investment

#79

Post by b_tterc_p » Wed, Apr 10, 2019, 4:10 PM UTC

caddytodaddy wrote: post #47

There’s lots of things to reasonably debate about this. This is already an accepted practice for coding boot camps like AppAcademy, which I attended. At the time I couldn’t get a good job and was running out of savings. I was an adult cleaning golf clubs with high school students. Couldn’t get anyone to even look at my resume. AppAcademy’s application was purely merit based, they just wanted to know you could solve p…

Any instrument can be made favorable. You can calculate out expected values. Sounds like yours was a reasonable deal.

But... assuming they don’t set prices using things other than degree, and that they’re priced to be on average equally profitable with an equivalent loan, you’ll be better off getting this arrangement if you expect to earn less than your average peers, and worse off if you expect to earn more. It’s basically a case of moral hazard. Long term you would expect people with less fiscally ambitious goals to pursue this (e.g. those who want to do more charitable, less fiscally rewarding careers) which means the average rate of return would need to be more punishing than traditional loans.

Mostly this just seems ripe for abuse against the loan providers to me, and that the terms will be made very unfair to compensate.

Re: Income-sharing agreements let students trade future earnings for investment

#80

Post by tracer4201 » Wed, Apr 10, 2019, 4:11 PM UTC

jki275 wrote: post #61

velcrovan wrote: post #60

Make the college free and provide students with a living stipend. Return higher education subsidies (and tax brackets) to their 1950s levels. Join the rest of the developed world.

what is "free"? There is no "free", it just means I have to pay for it. I prefer to pay for my own responsibilities, not for people to get underwater basketweaving degrees.

My parents didn’t have mountains of wealth. We grew up in a home where sometimes my mom forced me to go to school even when I was feeling sick because I could get one of my meals there.

In your view of the world, people like me essentially wouldn’t have access to opportunity that would be reserved for the wealthy folks.

You shouldn’t have to care about me individually, but if there are enough people like me, it takes a huge toll on society. You won’t be able to hide from it.