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Public Sans – A strong, neutral typeface for text or display

public-sans.digital.gov

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Re: Public Sans – A strong, neutral typeface for text or display

#71

Post by dpcx »

britta wrote: post #30
timdiggerm wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If only the Forest Service sites could use their templates

The Forest Service worked with 18F on this Open Forest project to enable people to buy Christmas tree permits online, which uses United States Web Design System components: https://openforest.fs.usda.gov/christmas-trees/forests You can learn more about that project here, including the open source code: https://18f.gsa.gov/what-we-deliver/forest-service/ - and a few blog posts about it: https://18f.gsa.gov/tags/forest…

https://openforest.fs.usda.gov/christmas-trees/forests has a pretty heavy dependency on Javascript (read: there's no fallback to anything non-javascript, so I get a white page). It feels like that goes against some of the things that 18F is about.

Re: Public Sans – A strong, neutral typeface for text or display

#72

Post by eddietejeda »

SamWhited wrote: post #62
president wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does anyone know what it's like working for the USDS? Curious what it's like to work for the Government but under the leadership of presumably a bunch of ex-Googlers.

I really wanted to work for the USDS for a while. I'd still like to, but the invasiveness of an SF-86 which is required for some reason even if you don't need a security clearance, drug testing (I'd pass, but I'm not okay with requiring one anyways), and the fact that I'd have to move to D.C. make the sacrifice a big thing to weigh against the public good you'd be able to do. It's a tough call.

USDS's requirement to be in DC is a tough ask, but necessary given the work they do. At 18F, we travel to DC a couple of times a year, but we are mostly remote. There are significant hubs in SF, NYC, DC, and CHI, but the remote culture is the most successful I've seen.

Re: Public Sans – A strong, neutral typeface for text or display

#73

Post by yellowapple »

ComputerGuru wrote: post #44
boterock wrote: post #20

It is sad that any nice font looks like crap with Windows font rendering.

Windows does not have crap font rendering, Windows has advanced hinting support that varies by typeface and is infinitely customizable. Other operating systems apply a global hinting that typically discards the font designer's own preferences for how the font should look (especially at smaller scales). Fonts without that manual hinting look like crap on Windows because Windows does not force through its own rendering…

I don't think I've seen a single typeface that actually looks good on Windows 8 or later, though. Even Linux does a better job (with or without subpixel rendering).

Maybe I just haven't viewed enough fonts on recent Windows versions to have encountered the better examples, though; are there any fonts (to your knowledge) that do look especially good on Windows (and/or better than they do on macOS or a FreeType-using Unix-like OS)?

Re: Public Sans – A strong, neutral typeface for text or display

#74

Post by optymizer »

uses wrote: post #55
optymizer wrote: post #22

The older I get, the more skeptical I become. Kudos to the author for releasing their project, it looks like a lot of effort went into it, so I hate to sound overly negative, but I just can't help wonder if there is a practical reason for the US government to develop its own font? Is Sans Serif Fonts the department where the US government can really make a difference, or is this just a designer who happened to get a…

> Is Sans Serif Fonts the department where the US government can really make a difference Isn't this a pretty basic "appeal to worse problems" fallacy?

I don't think so.

The way I understand the "appeal to worse problems" fallacy is: "Y is worse than X, so why work on X if we haven't solved Y yet?"

In this case, I see X as a solved problem (perfectly appropriate Sans Serif typefaces exist) and Y as unsolved, whereas the fallacy treats both X and Y as unsolved.

Re: Public Sans – A strong, neutral typeface for text or display

#75

Post by cbhl »

citizenkeen wrote: post #49
legitster wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The key word is "neutral". The government doesn't set a preference for a specific font or organization.

What is a neutral font?

If I recall correctly, Open Sans was commissioned by Google.

Re: Public Sans – A strong, neutral typeface for text or display

#76

Post by yellowapple »

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #64
adriantam wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IANAL, I believe the whole idea behind GPL is to make sure GPL supersede what you might claim otherwise. So if the federal government can possibly make a derived work into public domain (or crown copyright if UK) instead of GPL, that's a loophole in GPL! (I know this work is not GPL, but similar idea applies)

I imagine just the government's code contributions would be public domain, and public domain code should be GPL compatible.

Public domain code ain't GPL-compatible though unless it's explicitly released under a "license" that functions as a public domain grant (e.g. CC0, 0-clause BSD, WTFPL, etc., though WTFPL has some legal wording issues IIRC), the reason for this being that not all jurisdictions recognize the concept of "public domain" and thus require explicit license terms.

Re: Public Sans – A strong, neutral typeface for text or display

#77

Post by pidg »

snide wrote: post #45
beefhash wrote: post #9

I've been wondering why all these new fonts tend to have a strong focus on sans serif font (Fira has no serif variant, Source Serif Pro came later than the other Source fonts). Aren't there a lot of situations (namely, lengthy legal documents) where you'd prefer a serif font before you want a sans serif?

Primarily because they focus on interfaces, not publishing. Serif is traditionally used for legibility of long text. Sans always wins for actual interface design (at least those with some manner of complexity) because it's much less visually distracting when used in a variety of weights and sizes. Interfaces tend to have much more mixed usage so we usually go with sans. Generally just using the system font is fine fo…

Ooh, Inter is very nice. Thanks!

Re: Public Sans – A strong, neutral typeface for text or display

#78

Post by legitster »

citizenkeen wrote: post #49
legitster wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The key word is "neutral". The government doesn't set a preference for a specific font or organization.

What is a neutral font?

If they pick a font, even an open source one, it could encourage people to copy them. Or be making some (very minor) statement about open source.

By developing their own font, they don't set preference for any organization, group, or business.

Re: Public Sans – A strong, neutral typeface for text or display

#79

Post by Someone1234 »

dpcx wrote: post #71
britta wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Forest Service worked with 18F on this Open Forest project to enable people to buy Christmas tree permits online, which uses United States Web Design System components: https://openforest.fs.usda.gov/christmas-trees/forests You can learn more about that project here, including the open source code: https://18f.gsa.gov/what-we-deliver/forest-service/ - and a few blog posts about it: https://18f.gsa.gov/tags/forest…

https://openforest.fs.usda.gov/christmas-trees/forests has a pretty heavy dependency on Javascript (read: there's no fallback to anything non-javascript, so I get a white page). It feels like that goes against some of the things that 18F is about.

Pages don't need a fallback to non-Javascript in 2019. Accessibility technologies now fully support a JS enabled web, with accessibility standards following suit.

That leaves only those who have voluntarily disabled JavaScript (I've worked on public facing government websites (not 18F). We simply don't support this edge case, and our legal department supports our legal right to do so (in particular in relation to ADA requirements).

Re: Public Sans – A strong, neutral typeface for text or display

#80

Post by bloudermilk »

optymizer wrote: post #22

The older I get, the more skeptical I become. Kudos to the author for releasing their project, it looks like a lot of effort went into it, so I hate to sound overly negative, but I just can't help wonder if there is a practical reason for the US government to develop its own font? Is Sans Serif Fonts the department where the US government can really make a difference, or is this just a designer who happened to get a…

I sympathize with the premise of your argument but disagree with you conclusion in this case. High quality typefaces are fundamental to any digital product within the government, commercial, and public sectors. In my opinion, this is a great contribution to the commons.
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