Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

4chan, 8chan blocked by Australian and NZ ISPs for hosting shooting video

arstechnica.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

71–80 of 184 posts

Re: 4chan, 8chan blocked by Australian and NZ ISPs for hosting shooting video

#71

Post by manigandham »

mixologic wrote: post #52
kbenson wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're either for free speech or you're not, and as much as I would like to have some absolute reference of good and bad, it's all culturally defined. I mean, I think it's horrible, but I can envision lots of functional and useful societies that are horrible based on my principles (how would you like to to be part of a hize mind?), but that doesn't make them bad in an absolute sense. Scaled down, freedom of speech is…

Yeah, free speech doesnt mean "anything goes". We as a society have made the determination that there are categories of speech that are harmful, and as such are illegal. You cant libel, you cant slander, you cant shout "Fire" in a crowded theater. Speech that advocates for the supression or termination of other people based on their race is "Hate speech" and also illegal. There is neither value nor need for complete…

Free speech is about government interference, and the first 3 categories have unanimous agreement.

It's the "hate speech" label that gets complicated based on who defines it. Many who claim things are hate speech today also use hate speech themselves (following your definition of suppression based on race) to shout down and ban others.

It shows just how complex this situation is and why "hate speech" is precisely the type of speech that needs defense in the first place because it's mostly rooted in defiance and disagreement, not outright hate.

Re: 4chan, 8chan blocked by Australian and NZ ISPs for hosting shooting video

#72

Post by reaperducer »

dymk wrote: post #55
atorralb wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. But we both know it will never happen.

Because it shouldn’t. Why let a terrorist organization not only get away with a shooting, but also get away with taking down any service (which removes content like this swiftly ) too?

How do you define "swiftly?" I haven't been able to follow this as closely as I like, but what I read early on was that it was streaming on Facebook for 17 minutes, and then available as reposts for days afterward. If this is incorrect, help me out by providing the actual numbers.

Re: 4chan, 8chan blocked by Australian and NZ ISPs for hosting shooting video

#73

Post by claudiawerner »

bduerst wrote: post #38
beatgammit wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't their policy basically "anything goes"? Locking things down seems counter to their goals. I know they have "some" moderation in "some" parts of their site, but moderating too much will just drive people away since many are there for "free speech" reasons. I think they'd be happier with the policy of, "if you don't like it, leave" than trying to appease others.

No, they specifically censor content like child pornography, torrent links (AFAIK), and some other material. There are situations where the expression of certain speech, like the generation and propagation of child pornography, harms others and should not be allowed. Even the original FS philosophers mostly agreed on this type of censorship.

They do not at all censor torrent links. In fact, the /t/ board is dedicated to sharing torrent and magnet links of all kinds of content, almost all of it to copyright-protected content. Child pornography is censored and will earn you an immediate perma-ban as soon as your post is found by a mod.

Re: 4chan, 8chan blocked by Australian and NZ ISPs for hosting shooting video

#74

Post by Freak_NL »

ars wrote: post #29

I watched this "illegal" video. And not only do I think it should not be illegal, I think watching it should be almost mandatory ! Package it with a safety curriculum, and people should watch it to know what to do. In particular: For the most part, those people in the video who ran, lived, those who tried to drop low, or froze up, died. (There were a couple of exceptions.) Additionally, one guy tried to attack the sh…

The chances of being in such a situation are so incredibly small, that training to deal with it is a wasted effort compared to a host of other stuff — e.g., learning CPR, taking a course in safely driving in wintery conditions, employing elementary fire safety precautions in the house, etc. Even stimulating people to learn to swim if they haven't already saves way more lives!

If you normalize an attack like this to the point that you start training the general populace for its (statistically unlikely) occurrence, you have effectively made terrorism in this form that much more effective.

Re: 4chan, 8chan blocked by Australian and NZ ISPs for hosting shooting video

#75

Post by RobertRoberts »

ourmandave wrote: post #22

The instance reminds me of the horrible ISIS beheading videos they used to publish. I don't remember what social platforms and governments did about those because I made it a point to avoid them so there was no chance of seeing the horror. Honestly, who needs the shit popping back in their head during any random moment?

The "first" beheading video (American contractor in orange jumpsuit in Iraq) was played on the monitors in the halls and public spaces at the local college for everyone on the campus to see.

It seems that if the message is supported (attack a foreign country) the populace will put up with a lot. And it doesn't take anything (just words) to be censored if they disagree with you.

Re: 4chan, 8chan blocked by Australian and NZ ISPs for hosting shooting video

#76

Post by Jerry2 »

post_break wrote: post #51

Scary how an ISP can just up and decide to block a website for hosting what they think is offensive. I guess it's the norm for China and Russia. What's scarier are the people cheering this as if it's a win.

>I guess it's the norm for China and Russia.

I guess it's the norm in Australia and New Zealand now as well. And let's not forget that Sci-Hub has been blocked in a bunch of countries (including the US) and their domains have been taken away [1].

It looks to me that Australia, in particular, is the testing ground for FIVE EYES censorship efforts. Australia recently passed a draconian anti-encryption law [2] which will impact a number of multi-national companies. Other members of FIVE EYES are gauging the fallout from this and are probably waiting for some tragedy to strike before they can enact similar laws.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sci-Hub#Legal_situation

[2] https://www.theverge.com/2018/12/7/18130391/encryption-law-a...

Re: 4chan, 8chan blocked by Australian and NZ ISPs for hosting shooting video

#77

Post by sexydefinesher »

I dont think the people here saying nazist ideology should be confronted in the public have actually used 4chan/8chan (anyone thats ever been there knows /pol/ isnt limited to /pol/). Its not a place of discourse but of propagation and fuels hate and dehumanization. Id encourage you to go there try out your debate theory.

Re: 4chan, 8chan blocked by Australian and NZ ISPs for hosting shooting video

#78

Post by mooseburger »

bduerst wrote: post #38
beatgammit wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't their policy basically "anything goes"? Locking things down seems counter to their goals. I know they have "some" moderation in "some" parts of their site, but moderating too much will just drive people away since many are there for "free speech" reasons. I think they'd be happier with the policy of, "if you don't like it, leave" than trying to appease others.

No, they specifically censor content like child pornography, torrent links (AFAIK), and some other material. There are situations where the expression of certain speech, like the generation and propagation of child pornography, harms others and should not be allowed. Even the original FS philosophers mostly agreed on this type of censorship.

Generation of CP harms others yes, but propagation does not. Always did regard the criminalization of possession and propagation of CP as a censorious overreach.

Re: 4chan, 8chan blocked by Australian and NZ ISPs for hosting shooting video

#79

Post by RobertRoberts »

Taniwha wrote: post #16
vondur wrote: post #2

Pretty soon it will be available everywhere. How many sites will they block?

Probably everywhere necessary. The snuff video has been adjudged obscene, the way the NZ law works it was always obscene, the censor just confirms it. In practice if you access something like this and once you realise what you're seeing you stop watching then the government isn't going to come after you, but if you share it, keep a copy etc etc you have broken the law enough that you're likely in trouble. Because it'…

Don't be naive, it's not being blocked because it's "obscene" or "snuff". There are plenty of sites with _far_ worse than this video on them that aren't blocked.

Re: 4chan, 8chan blocked by Australian and NZ ISPs for hosting shooting video

#80

Post by krapp »

ip26 wrote: post #44
kbenson wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're either for free speech or you're not, and as much as I would like to have some absolute reference of good and bad, it's all culturally defined. I mean, I think it's horrible, but I can envision lots of functional and useful societies that are horrible based on my principles (how would you like to to be part of a hize mind?), but that doesn't make them bad in an absolute sense. Scaled down, freedom of speech is…

You can be for free speech while also unwilling to host certain speech on a platform you own & operate. I can support your right to protest, while also not permitting you to do it in my living room.

>You can be for free speech while also unwilling to host certain speech on a platform you own & operate.

In that case, you're for free speech in principle, but not in practice.

Which is fair, given that free speech in practice means being willing to commit felonies.

Post reply on HN