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Deadlines and sprints are bad for you

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Re: Deadlines and sprints are bad for you

#71
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds like we’ve had very different experiences but from what I’ve seen I think it depends more on the management / CEO than the company size. Some of the smaller companies I’ve worked for have been worse than any of the larger companies and that was entirely down to the fact that the CEO saw the sales team as the money bringers because they scored the lucrative deals, where as the engineering team were seen as r…

Changing the CEO's attitude is indeed impossible, even with multiple people that he respects. If you are seen as a replaceable work horse, you lose a lot of leverage indeed. Here in Belgium there is a huge shortage of software developers, which places the programmers in a stronger position than the companies. I can leave a company and instantly get the same or a higher pay somewhere else. A company on the other hand,…

There's definitely a shortage here as well. But that doesn't mean that a CEO has respect for the trade.

My thinking is if a CEO comes from a sales background then they will run their company in that mindset. Much like how some CEOs who are developers sometimes struggle to release products because they're focused on the technology rather than the product (gross exaggeration there - but I hope you understand the point I'm making)

Re: Deadlines and sprints are bad for you

#72
post #18

I think the author misses what the purpose of deadlines is. They are contracts between organizations for when software will be available, which are used for other organizations to make informed decisions without needing very tight and constant communication. They're analogous to SLAs in service-oriented designs. In a moderately large (say, 500+ employee) organization, deadlines are essential to get anything done. Sup…

No, the idea is that you don't set hard deadlines for the team - they're pointless. It results in unnecessary stress and work won't get done any faster (maybe in the short term, but it's unsustainable). Either the deadline is too short and your team has to work overtime, or it was too generous and you lose efficiency. The project manager, of course, still needs to be able to make an estimate according the his team's…

> No, the idea is that you don't set hard deadlines for the team - they're pointless.

I think the issue stems more from the prevalent confusion between deadlines and milestones in part of the IT world.

I used to work on ship command system. The ship would be stopped for maintenance for a couple of months and available for installation and qualification only during this set period of time. Anything not ready for this window would not be delivered. That's an actual deadline which the project had to meet.

As a project manager, it was my job to keep track of my team milestones to ensure we would be ready for the deadline and find solution when we had issues. It's not only about overtime by the way. You might need a temporary increase of the size of the team, access to external resources, time with an expert or a scope adjustement. Sometimes it's just impossible to meet the deadline and you just want to know as soon as possible to reschedule at minimum cost.

You do need to make an estimate in order to plan your milestones but you also need to commit or you will never know if you are on the right course.

Re: Deadlines and sprints are bad for you

#73
post #18

I think the author misses what the purpose of deadlines is. They are contracts between organizations for when software will be available, which are used for other organizations to make informed decisions without needing very tight and constant communication. They're analogous to SLAs in service-oriented designs. In a moderately large (say, 500+ employee) organization, deadlines are essential to get anything done. Sup…

No, the idea is that you don't set hard deadlines for the team - they're pointless. It results in unnecessary stress and work won't get done any faster (maybe in the short term, but it's unsustainable). Either the deadline is too short and your team has to work overtime, or it was too generous and you lose efficiency. The project manager, of course, still needs to be able to make an estimate according the his team's…

>The project manager, of course, still needs to be able to make an estimate according the his team's velocity, which he can then communicate to other business divisions.

PMs who can successfully and reliably handle this kind of analysis and forecasting for their team are more rare even than high-end software developers (in my experience in nyc startups, may be different elsewhere). And they can be far more expensive, because these skills apply heavily to things outside tech as well, so you're competing in a larger employer pool than developers.

The reason, I think, that (immature) companies use these sprint/deadline frameworks is that it puts the entire burden of everything complicated onto the engineers (estimation, forecasting, figuring out how to meet deadlines, incremental delivery, progress communication, GANTT charting, road-mapping, etc). They focus all their budget on hiring "good engineers" and then try to localize all the "hard" stuff there within engineering, and then they decide they can skimp and hire underpaid former consultants to be "product managers" where all they do is check boxes on a requirements list, and play the telephone game between deployments and engineering. It's literally creating the role of that guy in Office Space - "I'm a people person." These people will also never be able to gain enough control of product direction to challenge anyone in leadership over anything.

Company leaders seem to have some vague notion that this will somehow all work out in the long run by framing this whole thing as "being agile," and "not sinking too much resources into things that will change," yet all it is is lack of proper project planning abilities and a fear of owning risky decisions. It's a culture utterly lacking in leadership accountability. If everything is "wait and see," or, "ask the engineer for a commit- cough I mean 'estimate' for when it'll be 'done'," then nobody can ever be held accountable for bad leadership decisions or for improving their decision making skills over time as they learn and grow in a leadership position at the company.

I know this comes off kinda conspiracy-theory-esque, but I have a feeling that many of these systems develop in order for the less-skilled-but-scrappy initial engineers/employees who were friends of the founders to retain control as the company grows and develops the resources to hire far more skilled (but more risk averse) employees. Far too often you have someone who is perfect as a founding engineer and VP of Tech for 10-15 initial developers, but does not grow their experience to match the exponential growth of the company, so they do NOT have the experience to be CTO of a 100 engineer tech team several years later if the company takes off. But now this person has been through "war stories" with the founders/C-Suite, and the other execs can't bring themselves to realize that the person is now a huge burden on the company, because the other execs are also mostly in over their heads as well at this specific point in time (high growth).

One good way to judge if this is the case at a company is to see if they have an "engineering IC career ladder" and see what skills they decide apply to "senior" IC engineers. It very often ends up being things outside engineering that appear at the higher rungs of the ladder, even though it's supposedly an "IC" ladder, because they can't figure out how to hire the proper roles for those things, and can't do them themselves. It's crazy to me how many people seem to think a very experienced engineer should be working on GANTT charts and roadmapping instead of systems architecture design & maintenance, and high-complexity-scale technical change management, not to mention R&D and onboarding/training.

Re: Deadlines and sprints are bad for you

#74
post #23
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd simply say that if something isn't ready, then as a general rule, don't make decisions as though it will be ready at a particular time in the future. For instance, buying a home thinking that a new highway will be done around the time you move in could lead to multiple years of disappointment. Voting to allow your city to provide substantial financial incentives could enable the builder to go to extraordinary len…

If you run your businsss like this you will be outcompeted by people who make reasonable guesses on when things will be completed

Is there evidence for this? There are some very real examples of software companies that thrive by not providing estimates, valve, blizzard, google, apple, etc. I would assume the dominant factor in software delivery is actually ability solve user problems and not being able to time when those problems will be solved.

Re: Deadlines and sprints are bad for you

#75
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the idea is that you don't set hard deadlines for the team - they're pointless. It results in unnecessary stress and work won't get done any faster (maybe in the short term, but it's unsustainable). Either the deadline is too short and your team has to work overtime, or it was too generous and you lose efficiency. The project manager, of course, still needs to be able to make an estimate according the his team's…

>The project manager, of course, still needs to be able to make an estimate according the his team's velocity, which he can then communicate to other business divisions. PMs who can successfully and reliably handle this kind of analysis and forecasting for their team are more rare even than high-end software developers (in my experience in nyc startups, may be different elsewhere). And they can be far more expensive,…

Not conspiracy-theory-esque at all. Great insights. You sound like a more sane and balanced version of michaelochurch. Maybe you are extrapolating too much from a limited set of experiences, but your basic logic seems sound.

I've spent most of the first few years of my career working for small startups, or teams where I was the only dev, so I've seen lots of engineering projects "managed" by people who don't understand engineering. I was quite capable of self-managing, so it was often frustrating being straightjacketed by someone who didn't really know what they were doing.

I wasted a lot of time and probably would have been better off in a larger start-up or company with proper engineering management and a defined career track.

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