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CERN cuts ties with 'sexist' scientist Alessandro Strumia

bbc.com

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Re: CERN cuts ties with 'sexist' scientist Alessandro Strumia

#71

Post by dang »

samcday wrote: post #16

[flagged]

Could you please not post in the flamewar style to Hacker News? Your comment starts off ok (edit: well, half ok—it's snarky, which also breaks the guidelines) but the orgy of name-calling and flamebait it ends with is just what the guidelines ask us all to avoid here.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

You have a good point and it's vaguely discernible through the smoke, but good points don't matter when that level of provocation is also present. It quickly becomes the dominant variable, ruining thoughtful discussion.

Re: CERN cuts ties with 'sexist' scientist Alessandro Strumia

#72

Post by rjf72 »

For those that would like to see the slides of his talk to judge for themselves they are available here [1]. The slides described as "cartoons deriding women campaigning for equality in science" by the BBC, are 5th and and 2nd from the bottom.

[1] - https://drive.google.com/file/d/1c_NyUhOZ8erdqU2AGZJZtNfFeA9...

Re: CERN cuts ties with 'sexist' scientist Alessandro Strumia

#73

Post by htns »

mcguire wrote: post #65
bloopernova wrote: post #42

Q: Did Prof. Strumia work with subject matter experts on his controversial research before giving his presentation? My opinion: Being an expert in one area may not translate well into other areas. I'm a pretty good sysadmin, maybe even above average. But I don't present myself as a good/great devops or software engineer because I know I don't know as much as the developers I work with. If I'm trying to figure out som…

The neat thing about physicists (and many engineers) is that, because they understand the fundamentals of everything, they are completely qualified to speak on any topic.

We shouldn't settle for anything less than a panel of women's studies professors.

Re: CERN cuts ties with 'sexist' scientist Alessandro Strumia

#74

Post by russellbeattie »

This is like saying Americans are empirically bad at soccer.

First, so what? Second, he should be smart enough to realize this is a rash generalization, regardless of past data. Third, he should know that saying something like this just insults those already in the field, encourages ignorance from others, and discourages those coming into the field, and thus serves absolutely no purpose.

For someone who is supposed to be an intelligent and capable leader of a heavily funded public project, this is pure stupidity and justifies any action they took against him, regardless of gender politics.

That said, the guy is totally sexist. No idea why BBC bothered to put it in scare quotes, when it's unquestionably true.

Re: CERN cuts ties with 'sexist' scientist Alessandro Strumia

#76

Post by tptacek »

bhouston wrote: post #6

I am reminded of Larry Summers, then the head of Harvard, who said something similar: https://www.theguardian.com/science/2005/jan/18/educationsge... I think that previously there was a distinct issue with not enough women going through the degree programs. If the degree programs are 80% men and 20% women, statistically the men will outperform the women in outlier achievements just because there will likely be more p…

Last September, Professor Strumia stated that “physics was invented and built by men, it's not by invitation" at a presentation at the Cern the workshop.

He also showed cartoons deriding women campaigning for equality in science and presented the results of an analysis that he claimed showed that work conducted by female physicists was not as good as their male counterparts.

Did Larry Summers do anything as overt as this? CERN had to apologize after his presentation, which now includes a note:

Alessandro Strumia applied to give a presentation on “Bibiliometrics data about gender issues in fundamental theory”. The committee was skeptical of his motivations but decided to allow him to give a scientific presentation on data analysis. The committee is deeply disappointed that the presentation, which had not been shared prior to its delivery, included attacks on individuals and was contrary to CERN’s values, as set out in the CERN Code of Conduct. CERN’s official statement on the matter can be found here: https://press.cern/press-releases/2018/09/updated-statement-...

Re: CERN cuts ties with 'sexist' scientist Alessandro Strumia

#77

Post by [deleted] »

YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #36

>> He also showed cartoons deriding women campaigning for equality in science and presented the results of an analysis that he claimed showed that work conducted by female physicists was not as good as their male counterparts. My underlined sentence, is most likely the reason Cern considered that Alessandro Strumia's actions would bring disrepute to the Centre. Holding and publicly discussing controversial views is o…

[deleted]

Re: CERN cuts ties with 'sexist' scientist Alessandro Strumia

#78

Post by sonnyblarney »

rjf72 wrote: post #72

For those that would like to see the slides of his talk to judge for themselves they are available here [1]. The slides described as "cartoons deriding women campaigning for equality in science" by the BBC, are 5th and and 2nd from the bottom. [1] - https://drive.google.com/file/d/1c_NyUhOZ8erdqU2AGZJZtNfFeA9...

The BBC's characterization I think is unfair, I suggest HN'ers actually read the presentation.

While controversial, I don't think it's poignantly offensive.

I'm wary of researchers getting into flame wars and I guess CERN does have the right to avoid such things, at the same time, he seems to be making some points with a lot of data - the best thing someone concerned with opinions could do is actually debunk them instead of having him silenced ... because the BBC's article trying to shut him down may in fact have the opposite effect.

Re: CERN cuts ties with 'sexist' scientist Alessandro Strumia

#79

Post by tptacek »

sonnyblarney wrote: post #78
rjf72 wrote: post #72

For those that would like to see the slides of his talk to judge for themselves they are available here [1]. The slides described as "cartoons deriding women campaigning for equality in science" by the BBC, are 5th and and 2nd from the bottom. [1] - https://drive.google.com/file/d/1c_NyUhOZ8erdqU2AGZJZtNfFeA9...

The BBC's characterization I think is unfair, I suggest HN'ers actually read the presentation. While controversial, I don't think it's poignantly offensive. I'm wary of researchers getting into flame wars and I guess CERN does have the right to avoid such things, at the same time, he seems to be making some points with a lot of data - the best thing someone concerned with opinions could do is actually debunk them ins…

It's a formal presentation at a CERN workshop that invokes "Cultural Marxism". CERN had to apologize for the presentation after the workshop. Of course they're pissed.
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