The Stigma of Choosing Trade School over College • Hacker News Board

Re: The Stigma of Choosing Trade School over College

#71

Post by sametmax » Thu, Mar 07, 2019, 4:48 PM UTC

ihm wrote: post #18

One thing that is always missing from these articles is the idea that it’s actually good for individuals (and for our society) to get an expansive view of human knowledge rather than a narrow training to turn you into a worker on a production line (or at a computer). Of course right now that’s a path that’s not accessible to many people, and people may have other financial reasons for going to trade schools, but I th…

I don't know. I've been programming for 15 years now, and if I had to do it again, I would drop from school at 16 years old.

I'm not saying it's the only right way to do it. But given my profile and my history, I would have saved years of wasted hours, frustration and money without loosing much.

To me, the one thing we need to improve is to accept that school was a great improvement over what we had, but we now can sometime choose paths that are an improvement over school.

Re: The Stigma of Choosing Trade School over College

#72

Post by paulpauper » Thu, Mar 07, 2019, 4:49 PM UTC

jteppinette wrote: post #34

If students are coming out of 12 years of general education needing more general education, that is a failure of the public school system. We should fix that instead of pushing people into more school. After 12 years of general education, how do you justify more? In my opinion, we should be pushing specialized education at a younger age. When students exit high school, they should have skills that they can expand or…

The problem is not the school system but rather too much education and commodification of education. 100 years ago , knowing how to read and write and do basic math was special and made one employable, but now such skills are so commonplace, so more advanced education is needed to differentiate one's self

Re: The Stigma of Choosing Trade School over College

#73

Post by SketchySeaBeast » Thu, Mar 07, 2019, 4:49 PM UTC

snazz wrote: post #68

SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> After 12 years of general education, how do you justify more? A lot of the concepts you explore in university arts classes are things that a 12 year old just won't understand. Exploring subjects in a deep and meaningful way isn't possible until you've got your full adult toolkit of emotions and experience. > In my opinion, we should be pushing specialized education at a younger age. When students exit high school,…

12 years of school, not 12 years of age. In the US, a student would be 17 or 18 after their full 12 years.

I understand this - I didn't assume that the student would start at age zero. If we're going into vocational training in their teen years, they'll have to starting teaching the classics and philosophy to tweens.

Re: The Stigma of Choosing Trade School over College

#74

Post by remir » Thu, Mar 07, 2019, 4:49 PM UTC

School should be a place of discovery. By being exposed to multiple things, you're encouraged to find your interests and talents. Society should help students find their path and encourage them to pursue it. Not everybody has the same sets of talents and sensibilities.

There are child living in poverty that have the potential to be great doctors, scientists, programmers. And there are adults in these professions, today, that are miserable because they were pushed and pressured into obtaining the education and skills to do these jobs.

Society should help individuals reach their full potential, whatever that potential may be. If someonewants to be a welder, than help them be the best welder they can be. If they wants to be a doctor, than help them be the best doctor they can be. Imagine what we could achieve when everybody is firing on all cylinders.

Jobs as status symbol is ridiculous.

Re: The Stigma of Choosing Trade School over College

#75

Post by RankingMember » Thu, Mar 07, 2019, 4:49 PM UTC

SeanDav wrote: post #42

ngngngng wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a successful college dropout, and I completely disagree. One of the strongest motivators for me leaving school after 1 year was the realization that virtually all of my classes gave me no more benefit than if I had just purchased the textbook and read it myself. As for every other classroom benefit, there are brilliant mentors all over the internet I can discuss what i'm learning with whenever I choose, without h…

A large component of a university education is not so much what you learn at university, but the doors it can open for you later. In general (with some exceptions of course) it is unlikely you would be using very much of your university knowledge after a few years in your job in any case. You can have a very successful career without a college / university education, it is just easier to do the same with such an educ…

The "need that piece of paper" thing is sad but true. I do think it is changing, as I notice more and more IT job postings asking for X degree or equivalent experience nowadays.

Re: The Stigma of Choosing Trade School over College

#76

Post by droobles » Thu, Mar 07, 2019, 4:49 PM UTC

ihm wrote: post #18

One thing that is always missing from these articles is the idea that it’s actually good for individuals (and for our society) to get an expansive view of human knowledge rather than a narrow training to turn you into a worker on a production line (or at a computer). Of course right now that’s a path that’s not accessible to many people, and people may have other financial reasons for going to trade schools, but I th…

I would argue with the internet we have access to an expansive view to broaden our horizons, and the paid training can go toward developing skills for income. With Youtube, Wikipedia, and Google Scholar I think I've learned more than I ever could have at college.

Re: The Stigma of Choosing Trade School over College

#77

Post by germinalphrase » Thu, Mar 07, 2019, 4:50 PM UTC

bluedino wrote: post #2

Is 'video production' really a trade school? I think more of the blue-collar trades. Also, aren't video/music production classes like that usually the realm of for-profit schools like Full Sail and the job prospects dubious?

I can't speak for "video production" in general, but I can confidently say (as a former member of IATSE Local 600) that cinematography - as it's organized in Hollywood - very much remains a "trade" with clearly organized hierarchies, unionization, training, and culture.

Re: The Stigma of Choosing Trade School over College

#78

Post by paulpauper » Thu, Mar 07, 2019, 4:50 PM UTC

ngngngng wrote: post #31

ihm wrote: post #18

One thing that is always missing from these articles is the idea that it’s actually good for individuals (and for our society) to get an expansive view of human knowledge rather than a narrow training to turn you into a worker on a production line (or at a computer). Of course right now that’s a path that’s not accessible to many people, and people may have other financial reasons for going to trade schools, but I th…

I'm a successful college dropout, and I completely disagree. One of the strongest motivators for me leaving school after 1 year was the realization that virtually all of my classes gave me no more benefit than if I had just purchased the textbook and read it myself. As for every other classroom benefit, there are brilliant mentors all over the internet I can discuss what i'm learning with whenever I choose, without h…

A single anecdotal example is not convincing. in general, the data shows collage dropouts do worse on a wide range of metrics such as employment and wages than grads. Even if you can learn the material, having the diploma means more job opportunities.

Re: The Stigma of Choosing Trade School over College

#79

Post by JoeAltmaier » Thu, Mar 07, 2019, 4:53 PM UTC

paulpauper wrote: post #72

jteppinette wrote: post #34

If students are coming out of 12 years of general education needing more general education, that is a failure of the public school system. We should fix that instead of pushing people into more school. After 12 years of general education, how do you justify more? In my opinion, we should be pushing specialized education at a younger age. When students exit high school, they should have skills that they can expand or…

The problem is not the school system but rather too much education and commodification of education. 100 years ago , knowing how to read and write and do basic math was special and made one employable, but now such skills are so commonplace, so more advanced education is needed to differentiate one's self

Back then, high school graduation had an exam and a higher standard that most folks could do now. Can you amortize a loan? Close a ledger? Calculate return on an investment from a series of data points? Most can't today, regardless of college education.

So, real education still has value.

Re: The Stigma of Choosing Trade School over College

#80

Post by JamesBarney » Thu, Mar 07, 2019, 4:54 PM UTC

ihm wrote: post #18

One thing that is always missing from these articles is the idea that it’s actually good for individuals (and for our society) to get an expansive view of human knowledge rather than a narrow training to turn you into a worker on a production line (or at a computer). Of course right now that’s a path that’s not accessible to many people, and people may have other financial reasons for going to trade schools, but I th…

"opportunity to explore the accumulated knowledge of the humanities and sciences". What does this mean? We should be spending vast sums or human time and capital to make sure a sufficiently high percentage of the population needs knows how to shotgun beer and argue about Descartes?