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US Cities Are Becoming More Dangerous for Cyclists and Pedestrians

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Re: US Cities Are Becoming More Dangerous for Cyclists and Pedestrians

#71

Post by anonymou2 »

ahoy wrote: post #69
anonymou2 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, cyclists fare best when they act and are treated as drivers of vehicles: http://www.johnforester.com/

This is plainly wrong. The biggest threat to a biker is being hit by an automobile. If that biker is in a lane completely away from automobile traffic, that threat vanishes.

Being hit how? What type of accidents are more likely to happen? A bike path with no interaction at all with cars will of course prevent any bike-car collision, there will still be bike-bike collisions and other types of accidents (the majority of bike accidents are not car-bike collisions anyway). That kind of exclusive bicycle path is delusional anyway, specially in a urban settings, where you always have to interact with the regular roadway. And it is there, in those interactions where most bike-car collisions happen, in fact most collisions in general happen in intersections. Segregating by vehicle type only makes intersections, which is were accidents happen, more complicated. It makes no sense to have an exterior lane being a thru lane when the adjacent lane is allowed to turn right, that is a contradiction to traffic engineering principles and it is what many bike lanes do.

Re: US Cities Are Becoming More Dangerous for Cyclists and Pedestrians

#72

Post by jnty »

dsfyu404ed wrote: post #18
xefer wrote: post #12

I noticed they mentioned the speed reduction "Boston, for example, has reduced the city speed limit from 30 miles per hour to 25 mph." Cambridge across the river followed suit soon afterward, but having lived there for decades I can't say I've noticed one iota of difference in the speed cars travel. 25 mph is still ridiculously fast in most of the tight neighborhood streets. Really the speed limit should be reduced e…

The city wide speed limit was irrelevant in both cities to begin with because in 99.99% of places you couldn't get up to that speed or if you could it would be uncomfortable (narrow streets, poor visibility, etc). Conditions where one can even go 25+ for more than a couple hundred yards are rare and basically limited to main roads in low traffic conditions (i.e. late at night). These roads already had good bike lanes…

In the UK, people against 20mph limits often oppose them while claiming that they're never able to get above that speed anyway. Why are they opposing it then? The answer is simple - it's not true and on many streets you're able to drive at 30 or over (if you disregard other people's safety). I would sincerely doubt this was any less the case in the US where traffic lanes even on 'tight' streets seem to be stupidly wide. Many drivers also seem perfectly happy to break the speed limit in their desperate rush to get the back of a queue or to a red traffic light.

It's all very well having cars going at 40mph past you on a bike until the driver of one of them gets distracted or makes a simple mistake and hits you. Then you'll wish they were doing 20!

Re: US Cities Are Becoming More Dangerous for Cyclists and Pedestrians

#73

Post by 0xCMP »

jbarberu wrote: post #20

Having recently moved to Florida from Sweden, I was shocked at how biker/pedestrian hostile it is here. I naively thought I'd be able to live a more active lifestyle because of the nicer weather, but instead I'm driving a car everywhere as I wouldn't feel safe on a bike. It seems to be a pretty vicious cycle of the infrastructure being hostile to biking so nobody does it, nobody is biking so the roads are optimized f…

I have a personal conviction too that anywhere in South Florida which figures out how to change focus to walking/biking safely will reap very nice appreciation in real estate and taxes.

Yes, the weather is very hot, but the issue is not the heat but the fact everything is so far away and there isn't a safe way either-way of getting there without a car.

I'm a fan of how I understand Japanese zoning works + some of the stuff they're trying in Spain to ban cars in some areas.

Re: US Cities Are Becoming More Dangerous for Cyclists and Pedestrians

#74

Post by jbarberu »

cainxinth wrote: post #32
jbarberu wrote: post #20

Having recently moved to Florida from Sweden, I was shocked at how biker/pedestrian hostile it is here. I naively thought I'd be able to live a more active lifestyle because of the nicer weather, but instead I'm driving a car everywhere as I wouldn't feel safe on a bike. It seems to be a pretty vicious cycle of the infrastructure being hostile to biking so nobody does it, nobody is biking so the roads are optimized f…

Florida has pretty bad drivers. They are the 8th worst state according to this list: https://smartasset.com/checking-account/states-with-the-wors... I think it's because it's a state with a lot of transplants (such as yourself) so you have a big mix of driving styles all interacting and they sometimes clash.

I've also lived in Spain for a short time, which isn't exactly known for their great drivers. Central Florida is worse by miles. People stare at their phones while moving (at a light is bad enough, but at least you won't hit anyone), they drive with about a car's length of distance while going 45mph, shifting lanes without using their signals and other crazy shenanigans.

I'm just astounded by the complete disregard for other humans while they're in their cars. This is one of the biggest reason me and my wife are looking to resettle elsewhere in a couple of years.

Re: US Cities Are Becoming More Dangerous for Cyclists and Pedestrians

#75

Post by anonymou2 »

mytherin wrote: post #31
anonymou2 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, cyclists fare best when they act and are treated as drivers of vehicles: http://www.johnforester.com/

No, the safest option is to separate cycle lanes from roads altogether, as is evidenced by the significantly lower death toll per km that e.g. the NL and Denmark have compared to the US [1]. In those countries, cyclists almost never share the road with car drivers. In roads that are not designed for cycling (where cyclists have to share the road with car drivers), perhaps it is true that they fare best when they act…

You really can't compare the US and Denmark, you should pick a location and compare before and after segregation. Did it improve safety? There were plenty of bicycle trips in Denmark before cyclists were kicked off the roads for the convenience of motorists.

Re: US Cities Are Becoming More Dangerous for Cyclists and Pedestrians

#76

Post by jgys »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #40
upofadown wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't mention distracted and inattentive pedestrians because that is not an important factor. From the article: >Most pedestrians and bicyclists are killed or injured while they are obeying the law.

It sure is important when death is on the line. It's no consolation telling St Peter "But I was within the law!" It's risky out there. Everybody, please keep your heads up!

Also don't dress too provocatively, or you'll be asking for it.

... Oh, wait, we're victim blaming about something else this time?

Re: US Cities Are Becoming More Dangerous for Cyclists and Pedestrians

#77

Post by ainiriand »

everdev wrote: post #54

In the Bay Area it's popular for cyclists to bike on narrow, winding, steep roads with no shoulder like Sand Hill Rd. or Highway 9 in the Santa Cruz Mountains. Regardless of how you feel about bikes the conditions are inherently unsafe for bikes and cars and there are multiple annual fatalities. I can't think of another form of exercise where a participant puts themselves and non-participants in legal danger.

While I totally understand your point, I think that the cyclists are not the ones putting themselves in danger. They have every right to use the road safely. The danger is caused by the divers.

There are many reasons for this but the most common is not taking sufficient separation from the cyclist when passing them. Here in Spain is 1.5m but you don't usually see many cars so close.

Re: US Cities Are Becoming More Dangerous for Cyclists and Pedestrians

#78

Post by justaguyhere »

jbarberu wrote: post #20

Having recently moved to Florida from Sweden, I was shocked at how biker/pedestrian hostile it is here. I naively thought I'd be able to live a more active lifestyle because of the nicer weather, but instead I'm driving a car everywhere as I wouldn't feel safe on a bike. It seems to be a pretty vicious cycle of the infrastructure being hostile to biking so nobody does it, nobody is biking so the roads are optimized f…

An old lady looked at me straight in the eye while not slowing down her car and I jumped at the last moment. There is a video of a cop car hitting a cyclist and then arresting him for their mistake. I've lived in places where there are no sidewalks whatsoever. Basically you can either drive a car or sit at home. Most US city infrastructure and most drivers are not fond of pedestrians and cyclists.

Re: US Cities Are Becoming More Dangerous for Cyclists and Pedestrians

#79

Post by jnty »

admiral_biatch wrote: post #39
maxsilver wrote: post #9

The safest infrastructure are ones that split pedestrian / bicyclist / motor traffic as much as possible, for obvious reasons. But that infrastructure has fallen out of favor as of late. "Complete streets" are the new fashion trend, and are significantly more dangerous, by combining these forms of traffic altogether and just sort of hoping it all works out. But, "complete" streets are super cheap, and give the illusi…

In my opinion isolating separate transportation modes is only good if it is complete isolation but that's never feasible in a city. Too expensive and space-inefficient to make every intersection collision-free for cars, bikes and pedestrians. If you separate cars, bikes and pedestrians most of the time but their paths cross at intersections then you have a problem because drivers might not expect a sudden bike lane o…

Of course drivers in cities do expect 'bikes coming out of nowhere' because, unless you literally separate bikes with a 6ft wall, you can in fact still see them despite there being kerb-separation in place. At car/bike junctions with poor visibility the same interventions are available as for car junctions with poor visibility.

If you've ever seen a mangled barrier by the side of a road, you'll understand why encouraging humans into the road as a traffic calming strategy is rather problematic.

Enlightened cities such as those in the Netherlands tend to take a risk-elimination approach - residential streets will be designed to keep speeds low, and neighbourhoods designed so that through-traffic doesn't try to take shortcuts along them. This makes it safe for cyclists to use the roads without special infrastructure. Only busier main roads have infrastructure. This is hard to imagine in the US where many cities in the US seem unfamiliar with the concept of any road not being a busy main road!

Re: US Cities Are Becoming More Dangerous for Cyclists and Pedestrians

#80

Post by mcv »

cr1895 wrote: post #41
mytherin wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the safest option is to separate cycle lanes from roads altogether, as is evidenced by the significantly lower death toll per km that e.g. the NL and Denmark have compared to the US [1]. In those countries, cyclists almost never share the road with car drivers. In roads that are not designed for cycling (where cyclists have to share the road with car drivers), perhaps it is true that they fare best when they act…

>cyclists almost never share the road with car drivers That's not true...there's plenty of shared road. Drivers are more cautious and aware, but it's not all separate pathways.

Shared road is getting increasingly rare, though. Except in 30 kph zones where cars have to go slow anyway.

When I was a kid, there were still plenty of 60-80 kph roads where bikes had to ride on the right side of the car lane, but almost all of those have separate bike lanes or bike paths nowadays.

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