The one thing that personally really angers me is that many institutions are exponentially harder to break into unless you come from a specific, moneyed background. You basically need to go to an elite preschool, to go to an elite primary school (usually private), to go to an elite secondary school, to get into an elite university, to get into an elite company in an elite sector (consulting, investment banking, arguably SV tech more often than not). To this class of people, spending $60k+ a year*, per child is nothing since they have been spending that much since the child was born. I've met more than a handful of these people that I wonder what, if anything, they learned.
Why the “Self-Made” Success Story Is a Myth
71–80 of 222 posts
Re: Why the “Self-Made” Success Story Is a Myth
#72This is such nonsense. First of all, there are absolutely people who come from dirt poverty and become wildly successful. Second of all, plenty of people receive lots of help from their parents and amount to precisely nothing. IMO it's fair to refer to your success as "self made" if you exceed the median success level of your class peer group by a substantial margin. If you immigrate from Africa with nothing, and you…
Down-voted for such a strong word - "nonsense". See my other comment [1]. I am as self-made as anyone can be, with a very high standard of living in my country without taking even one cent from my parents beyond a certain age. But all that is because of one stroke of luck - I am proud of the fact that I was able to use that luck to my advantage but under no illusion that all my success is due to me alone. [1] https:/…
The fact that you did not do whatever it is that you did without any modicum of help or luck does not mean you are not self-made. You can take credit for your accomplishments. It's ok. We don't have to live in a binary, all or nothing world. You can acknowledge that you got lucky, while simultaneously acknowledging that you were smart and hard working to achieve whatever it is that you have. Maybe in your case it was entirely due to luck, but I seriously doubt it.
Re: Why the “Self-Made” Success Story Is a Myth
#73I like that we keep talking about privilege, no matter how much it irks the hacker news elite. I have a previous comment about this[0], so I will not go into too much detail.
Nobody thinks they are rich or privileged. Now, the Hendersons down the street? THOSE PEOPLE are rich! I feel that people underestimate the huge effect of having a safety net under them.
It is the difference between going to the amazing state school and the local community college.
It is the difference between paying attention and learning in class and sleeping through it because you had to get up at 6 am to work an 8-hour shift.
It is the difference between living in a studio apartment, 45 minutes from school in the bad part of town and living in the beautiful two-bedroom top-floor loft in Logan Square.
It is the difference between a data entry job, and an unpaid research internship with your professors.
It is the difference between sleeping on a couch for 3 months while you look for your first job, and having a place to stay and prepare.
It is the difference between taking the first job you can get, and holding out until you find a better one.
It's the difference between a loan for a house and a loan to your parents to pay off medical debt.
Think about every step, every decision you have made in your life and consider if you would have made the same choices if your life was different.
Re: Why the “Self-Made” Success Story Is a Myth
#74This is such nonsense. First of all, there are absolutely people who come from dirt poverty and become wildly successful. Second of all, plenty of people receive lots of help from their parents and amount to precisely nothing. IMO it's fair to refer to your success as "self made" if you exceed the median success level of your class peer group by a substantial margin. If you immigrate from Africa with nothing, and you…
I mean, nobody is saying that it doesn't exist. What people are saying is that the majority of it is an illusion. It's easy to take risks when you have multiple levels to fallback to. I've worked with both backgrounds of people in the same group and there couldn't be a starker difference in attitudes.
Sure, but lots of people are born rich and don't go anywhere. Yes, it's helpful to have something to fall back on, and yes, successful people from well off backgrounds should acknowledge that fact. But it doesn't mean that their accomplishments aren't their own.
Re: Why the “Self-Made” Success Story Is a Myth
#75Earlier quoted context omitted.
> But if you say, start Microsoft and become a billionaire i'd say that it's fair to call that self-made success. Bill Gate’s family clearly contributed to his and Microsoft’s success. His mother in particular had direct contact with the chairman of IBM which lead to a scrappy software company landing a life changing contract. I’m not saying that to discount the rest of his achievements or effort either. The greatest…
Not everyone, if put in Bill Gates' shoes, would have been able to take advantage of such an opportunity. Can you say that if you were there, you'd have done the same? And executed as well afterward, into a multi-billion dollar company?
That's the wrong question.
Would Bill Gates have been able to do what he did if he grew up poor, with poor nutrition and poor education? We all owe our success to good fortune and the prosperous society we find ourselves lucky enough to be a part of.
Re: Why the “Self-Made” Success Story Is a Myth
#76It's really quite amazing to see the attacks lately against successful people. I can't help but feel we're being prepped to accept a new tax structure (or possibly new economical model), and the first step is to whip up everyone against the future fodder (wealthy individuals). The poor spendthrift vagabond says to a rich man: "I have discovered there is enough money in the world for all of us, if it was equally divid…
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Re: Why the “Self-Made” Success Story Is a Myth
#77Earlier quoted context omitted.
How old are they? I know plenty of people who bought a house 30 or 40 years ago on blue collar salaries. I don't know any <30 year olds who bought property without parental help.
A $180,000 30yr mortgage will cost you ~$880 per month. These days the median of all home sales in the US is about $225,000. The hard part of that $225k purchase for most people under 30 is the down payment of $45k. The median full-time income is about $50,000 in the US. Emphasis that that is the median, not average. Two household incomes is ~$85,000 or higher at median type wages (assuming a pairing of one full-time…
With the average cost of wedding in the US being above $35k (https://www.marketwatch.com/story/what-the-average-american-...), $45k of downpayment seems to be well within the means of an average family.
Re: Why the “Self-Made” Success Story Is a Myth
#78Earlier quoted context omitted.
They are pretty common. Kansas City. St. Louis. Des Moines. Dayton. And that's just the Midwest. You don't need a great job market; you just need the one job. Works for some people.
With the market changing quicker than ever before due to various structural changes such as new technologies, consolidation of employers, and globalization, I would not recommend having one, or even just a handful of buyers for what you're selling. This applies to businesses and individuals. I would demand a premium for being in a market where there are fewer buyers and I am subject to more risk of losing my income.
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Re: Why the “Self-Made” Success Story Is a Myth
#79This is such nonsense. First of all, there are absolutely people who come from dirt poverty and become wildly successful. Second of all, plenty of people receive lots of help from their parents and amount to precisely nothing. IMO it's fair to refer to your success as "self made" if you exceed the median success level of your class peer group by a substantial margin. If you immigrate from Africa with nothing, and you…
> But if you say, start Microsoft and become a billionaire i'd say that it's fair to call that self-made success. Bill Gate’s family clearly contributed to his and Microsoft’s success. His mother in particular had direct contact with the chairman of IBM which lead to a scrappy software company landing a life changing contract. I’m not saying that to discount the rest of his achievements or effort either. The greatest…
I totally agree. What I disagree with is the people that want to dismiss Gates success completely because his family had some money. Tens of thousands of kids have the same background that he did, but don't do anything half as incredible as starting Microsoft. While Gates should acknowledge the advantages he's had, I don't think it's unfair or unreasonable for him to feel pretty good about what he's accomplished.
Re: Why the “Self-Made” Success Story Is a Myth
#80>She told me, “I was curious, but I don't know how a single person in America who doesn't have family money could buy anything, I really don’t, if they're not working in finance or they're not a doctor. ” Easy, there are vast areas of America where housing is more affordable. I certainly got zero cash from family when I bought a home. My family put money into giving me food and shelter growing up though. This is kind…
Responding to your quote: Working in finance, I can report that we do not have magic money machines. You could narrow "finance" to mean professional traders who do extensive market research and take large risks, sure, they make a lot of money, but they also get wiped out periodically. They're not very different from other entrepreneurs who make a big investment into their area of expertise and takes big risks, often…
I'm not saying it's an easy job, by any means, but there's not a ton of risk involved in taking an entry level job at an investment bank and trying to work your way up to MD or similar. And that track most certainly pays plenty well, even if you doin't quite get as high as the boardroom.