Earlier quoted context omitted.
> So would the President choose the radiation naked picture method or the deep groping method for his daughters? I'd seriously like that question asked at some point by the press. No one in the press has the guts to ask him this. But man, I'd love to see that too.
To be fair, not just the President but also any Congressperson/Senator that is interviewed for the rest of the year on any program. Which one do you want your mother/children experiencing, naked picture radiation, deep groping, or would you instead choose the $10,000 fine for leaving (and possibly being put on the no-fly list forever)?
When we got to the scanner, I opted out. Then they opted out.
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Re: When we got to the scanner, I opted out. Then they opted out.
#72I agree that having to choose between flying and getting groped/strip-scanned or not flying is ridiculous, and I'm happy that he and others were able to circumvent this. But he says they were using Millimeter Wave Scanners, which as far as I can tell, and contrary to his argument, do not use x-rays. That letter refers to another type of machine, x-ray backscatter scanners.
Re: When we got to the scanner, I opted out. Then they opted out.
#73"No thanks, I’ve already had cancer, just feel me up or whatever." Brilliant!
Note how in this photo the person in line, not just the person in the scanner is being exposed:
Re: When we got to the scanner, I opted out. Then they opted out.
#74Never underestimate the potential for convincing an underpaid federal employee to cut corners. If you make this stuff too inconvenient for the guys on the ground, the policy gets eroded from the inside. Until Napolitano cracks down. But that's several moves ahead.
I think most of them are intoxicated on the power, I mean how much would someone have to pay you to grope people all day? I'd quit in an hour. Have you seen the photo where this horrifying parody http://imgur.com/Nu5f8.jpg is the wallpaper on the computer screen in the TSA office? http://imgur.com/1xFBp.jpg I mean think about the mentality - in the very workplace they do it.
Re: When we got to the scanner, I opted out. Then they opted out.
#75Just curious, does anyone have some hard evidence that the MWBS is a cancer risk? I ask this simply because anti-X activists have pushed junk science claims of the form "X causes CANCER" many times [1], so I'm a little dubious. I don't think fighting civil liberties violations with junk science is a useful tactic, if that is indeed what is happening here. [1] For example, feminists pushed the "silicone gel implants c…
Well, X-rays cause cancer. BS uses X-rays So it is a cancer risk. And it is a little more founded than someone randomly saying' this causes cancer'.
In terms of risk...
This says dental x-rays are about 2-3 mrem: http://www.physics.isu.edu/radinf/dental.htm
This says BS is about .006-.009 mrem: http://science.howstuffworks.com/innovation/backscatter.htm
Keep in mind that under certain models (the 'no-threshold model'), any amount of exposure (even a tiny amount) to an X-ray is a slight increase in the chance that that person will get cancer.
Now you might think that because dental x-rays are about 300 times more powerful than BS, dental x-rays have a much higher chance to cause cancer. Sure, individually, my chances of getting cancer from a BS are much lower than my chances of getting cancer from a dental x-ray. It is even higher from daily background radiation, or from the radiation that you get from flying in an airplane.
But everything is about context. How many people fly each day? 2 million or so? How many people do we propose to put through the BS machine? All of them? (I assume the intent is to eventually replace the metal detectors with these). If you are putting 2 million people through the BS each day, that is actually large amount of radiation exposure. Probabilistically, someone will get cancer from the BS.
There are certain types of radiation that you can avoid (x-raying your foot for fun! backscatter machines), and there are certain types of radiation that you cannot avoid (background cosmic).
I don't see how the argument that it is 'nothing' in comparison to other forms of radiation really stands up, in that I could potentially avoid backscatter radiation, whereas I couldn't conceivably avoid the other types.
(This doesn't take into account other real issues, like 'what if the machine breaks down and we start blasting people with focused beams of radiation'... while trained to run the machine, I doubt that the TSA people are trained to maintain the machine, or would even know if something had gone horribly wrong with it).
Re: When we got to the scanner, I opted out. Then they opted out.
#76Earlier quoted context omitted.
We actually have a very good idea how much damage x-rays and millimeter waves do to the human body, since we've been dealing with both technologically for many years. Because x-rays are used in medical devices that have to be approved by the FDA, we've developed some very good ideas about what sort of doses are harmful and which aren't. The damage done by the x-ray scans used by the TSA do indeed produce damage, meas…
But isn't 10 microSieverts over a 5 hour flight much better than 1 microSievert in the span on a few seconds? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiation_poisoning#Fractionati...
The fractionation effect only comes into play when you receive such a high radiation does that it can cause large amounts of cell death. Similarly, being burned (with fire) twice at low intensity is better than being burned once at high intensity, since your body can partially recover after the first burn.
Re: When we got to the scanner, I opted out. Then they opted out.
#77After removing my shoes (the one part of airport security theatre I absolutely hate) and placing my belongings in those gray trays, I walked up to the TSA agent, who asked me multiple times if I had anything in my pockets-had I forgotten my wallet? Did I have my wrist watch on? Etc.
After the person in front of me had completed his scan, the TSA agent directed me to step forward. I asked if I could opt out. He responded with, "sure", and in his walkie-talkie, said, "I have a male-opt out." He then looked at me and said, "One second..."
He got a response back in his walkie talkie, and then directed me to walk through the scanner, pointing out that the scanner was not on.
On the other side, I was greeted by an older gentleman, who also pointed out the scanner was off. He asked if I would prefer being patted down in a private location. I declined. He then explained everything he would do: From the pat down, to using the back of his hand for the more "private" areas. I said, "okay...", honestly expecting the worst at this point.
He proceeded with the pat down at this point. He did my upper body first (arms, chest, back) and then went to my backside and said, "I'll now be using the back of my hand to pat your more private area" (my butt, basically...) I responded, "okay", and then with a brush, he ran his hand down the backside of my leg.
I'll be honest: My immediate thought was, "That's it? I've been grabbed worse in a club/bar..."
Of course, I still hadn't received the crotch check...
He then explained he would be patting down my leg. "Here goes...", I thought.
With the back of his hands, he patted down my upper thighs (no where near the crotch), and then wrapped his hands around my legs and went "up" until "contact" was made, but immediately moved down, patting the rest of my leg. He then moved on to the other.
Again, I've seen and experienced far worse contact made in a club/bar.
After that, he had to get his gloves scanned (similar to the band they use for laptops), and after everything came clear, he thanked me for cooperating. I thanked him in response, and went on my way.
While I realize it's entirely dependent on the TSA agent you're dealing with, as well as personal/emotional experience, my own experience wasn't nearly as bad as I had prepared myself for.
When I pointed this out to a friend of mine (via text), he responded, "Yeah, but you're not a hot chick..."
He probably has a point :)
A few observations: Two of the four or five passengers who opted-in to get scanned, had to be patted down after - a similar experience I had (I went through the scanner once before, a mistake on my part, and had to be patted down after...)
The TSA agent made a comment during the pat down that surprised me: He wasn't a fan of the scanners himself. He said (paraphrasing here), "I've been reading about the radiation from these machines. You think passengers have it bad? I have to stand in front of this thing all day!"
Edit: Shoot, this is a lot longer than I had anticipated. A tl;dr: I opted-out of the scanner out of my own curiosity. The airport I flew out of employed TSA agents who made the experience not nearly as bad as I had anticipated... Of course, YMMV.
Re: When we got to the scanner, I opted out. Then they opted out.
#78Earlier quoted context omitted.
According to what I've read, the energy of the radiation prevents it from penetrating deeply (indeed, the Compton effect backscatter at the surface is the whole point of it). This might sound like a good thing, but it also means that the radiation isn't "diluted" over the full mass of your body. The damaging effects will be localized to -- and concentrated within -- the skin and shallower tissues. So those organs aff…
This argument betrays a lack of understanding of radiation physics. Think of each cell in your body as a dice. When a cell is hit by radiation, the dice is rolled - you get cancer if any dice comes up 6 (these are billion-sided dice). The radiation dose is the number of dice rolls you need to make. Now, under which circumstance is a roll of 6 more likely? If you roll 100 dice 1 time each (traditional x-ray), or 1 dic…
Edit: Maybe this is incorrect when it comes to cancer risk, but I had the impression it still mattered, with multiple impacts in the same area of DNA causing things to be more likely to permanently break. Unless that is extremely unlikely to happen at all at this level of dose.
Still, these machines are probably not particularly harmful.
Re: When we got to the scanner, I opted out. Then they opted out.
#79Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think most of them are intoxicated on the power, I mean how much would someone have to pay you to grope people all day? I'd quit in an hour. Have you seen the photo where this horrifying parody http://imgur.com/Nu5f8.jpg is the wallpaper on the computer screen in the TSA office? http://imgur.com/1xFBp.jpg I mean think about the mentality - in the very workplace they do it.
I'm actually more horrified by my tax dollars paying for the TSA to sit in Herman Miller chairs, but damn. Beggars belief.
Re: When we got to the scanner, I opted out. Then they opted out.
#80I opted out during my last flight. After everything I had read, I decided I needed to experience it first hand. I was expecting a huge scene, with the TSA agent screaming, "OPT OUT! We've got an opt out here!", and then being manhandled, groped, and basically demeaned in front of other passengers. After removing my shoes (the one part of airport security theatre I absolutely hate) and placing my belongings in those g…