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Schools in England Introduce a New Subject: Mindfulness

nytimes.com

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Re: Schools in England Introduce a New Subject: Mindfulness

#71

Post by mapcars »

076ae80a-3c97-4 wrote: post #15
mapcars wrote: post #2

>“Children will start to be introduced gradually to issues around mental health, well-being and happiness right from the start of primary school,” he added. Why wouldn't adults just solve their mental problems instead of introducing them to children? Children have no problems with happiness or well-being. It's us who should learn from them. big facepalm

You're gatekeeping metal health problems.

In my experience most things which people call "mental problems" are caused by themselves. And the solution is to stop causing them, not to learn how to "manage" with them.

Re: Schools in England Introduce a New Subject: Mindfulness

#72

Post by anextomp »

bencollier49 wrote: post #33

My five year-old son now talks about his mind in the third person as a result of this. I'm having to retrain him with responsibility for his own actions. Lovely idea and all but having untrained people teaching psychological practices to reception-grade children seems rather foolhardy to me.

That seems like a fairly healthy thing to learn, no?

Sometimes we need to acknowledge that our brain can cause us to do things we don't want to, and not beat ourselves up for it. Obviously that can go too far, and you need to anticipate the consequences of your actions, owning your conscious decisions.

Re: Schools in England Introduce a New Subject: Mindfulness

#73

Post by fdggdfsvscvsd »

"children and teenagers struggling to get to grips with how they fit into the increasingly complex modern world"

Isn't that basically the job of children, and has always been?

Not to denounce the efforts to improve their mental health. Just saying some struggle seems normal and unavoidable, probably even necessary.

Re: Schools in England Introduce a New Subject: Mindfulness

#74

Post by DanBC »

mapcars wrote: post #71
076ae80a-3c97-4 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're gatekeeping metal health problems.

In my experience most things which people call "mental problems" are caused by themselves. And the solution is to stop causing them, not to learn how to "manage" with them.

"I don't know anything about zoology, biology, geology, geography, marine biology, crypto zoology, evolutionary theory, evolutionary biology, meteorology, liminology, history, herpatology, paleontology, or archeology, but I think ..."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzOv14fA-BI

Re: Schools in England Introduce a New Subject: Mindfulness

#75

Post by sgt101 »

My child is doing this; I've seen two situations where it was a help.

- I took a chunk out of myself with an axe (idiot, tired, low blood sugar tomfoolery); I got coached to calm down, and "this is a good opportunity to practice mindfulness" was quoted at me. It was surprisingly helpful actually :)

- We stayed with some friends and one of their children had a typical 10yrld meltdown (over xbox); my child took themselves off to another room and practiced mindfulness to avoid getting upset.

So, it appears to be rubbish, but in practice seems to give tools that work, at least a bit!

Re: Schools in England Introduce a New Subject: Mindfulness

#76

Post by fdggdfsvscvsd »

DanBC wrote: post #63
FrankyHollywood wrote: post #27

I'm always puzzled with the fact that people search for surrogate solutions instead of pursuing the real issue. If you don't feel well there is so much you can do. Make serious effort in making friends, join a sports club or something else you like, solve long running conflicts with other people, don't over- or under achieve on a level which doesn't fit you (school/work), be proud with the things you accomplish inste…

Mental ill health is a leading cause of death worldwide. It leads to more years lost to disabiity than anything else. It's a significant cause of absence from work. If the cure was so fucking simple don't you think people would have tried it? The worst thing about HN is people who do not know what they're talking about chipping in with their facile half-witted suggestions for what they reckon.

But "practicing mindfulness" is suggesting the cure is easy (pretty sure the science is shaky, at least positive thinking isn't proven to work?).

Actually working on issues might work better, and might also not be easy.

Re: Schools in England Introduce a New Subject: Mindfulness

#77

Post by zimpenfish »

DanBC wrote: post #67
zimpenfish wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Whom do you think they learned this from? I suspect that in a non-ignorable number of cases, "no one", because it's entirely possible their brain chemistry is just screwy.

No-one credible uses brain chemistry as an explanation for depression (unless you're talking about bi-polar). The emphasis is on the psycho-social bit of bio-psycho-social.

> No-one credible uses brain chemistry as an explanation for depression

Presumably you're missing a "sole" before explanation there?

Because brain chemistry certainly seems to be definitely regarded as at least holding a coat even if it's not actively swinging punches.

Re: Schools in England Introduce a New Subject: Mindfulness

#78

Post by DanBC »

fdggdfsvscvsd wrote: post #73

"children and teenagers struggling to get to grips with how they fit into the increasingly complex modern world" Isn't that basically the job of children, and has always been? Not to denounce the efforts to improve their mental health. Just saying some struggle seems normal and unavoidable, probably even necessary.

Mindfullness doesn't aim to eliminate struggle. Children still have to sit exams; they still have chances to enter competition. And mindfulness won't, for example, remove a child from poverty.

What it might do is stop children killing themselves as a result of adversity.

Rates of death by suicide in the UK have been declining recently, but not for young people. We also know that rates of self-harm for young people are increasing, and self harm is a significant predictor of death by suicide.

Re: Schools in England Introduce a New Subject: Mindfulness

#79

Post by yoz-y »

fooblat wrote: post #48
spuz wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like you had a bad workshop the first time round. Mindfulness should be rational, scientific and entirely free of woo or magical thinking.

I can only agree with you 100%. However, it seems this is not a universal view.

Recently I have been bombarded by ads for some mindfulness app on youtube. All of their ads talk about ancient aliens and crystals, whereas the application presents itself as a yoga and meditation thing. The content has both.

I guess that for some reason the target audiences overlap enough that bundling the woo and meditation makes some economical sense.

Re: Schools in England Introduce a New Subject: Mindfulness

#80

Post by mapcars »

DanBC wrote: post #74
mapcars wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my experience most things which people call "mental problems" are caused by themselves. And the solution is to stop causing them, not to learn how to "manage" with them.

"I don't know anything about zoology, biology, geology, geography, marine biology, crypto zoology, evolutionary theory, evolutionary biology, meteorology, liminology, history, herpatology, paleontology, or archeology, but I think ..." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzOv14fA-BI

This is a subject where you don't need to know (intellectually), the experience is more important. Do you "know" joy better by experiencing it or by learning from a textbook or a school class?
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