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Airbnb and security camera disclosure

jeffreybigham.com

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Re: Airbnb and security camera disclosure

#71

Post by morpheuskafka »

wil421 wrote: post #34
telecuda wrote: post #5

After a host made a suspicious/creepy comment about our stay, I started logging into host routers (creds usually printed on the device) and look at what other devices are connected. The camera may not be on that network, or not networked at all, but it’s a little peace of mind.

There is an app called Fing on iPhones and maybe Android. It will scan the WiFi you are on and give you a bunch of information. There’s also a few more network functions you can do. It recognizes phones, my plex server, and a brother printer at my house to name a few. No router login required just the WiFi password.

And using Fing (works better on Android b/c on iOS it can't access raw MAC addresses) is perfectly legal. The fact that a default password is used or the password is posted on the router is not in any way legal permission to access it as a short-term guest. Look at Aaron Swartz's case if you don't know how readily prosecutors will (ab)use the CFAA.

Re: Airbnb and security camera disclosure

#72

Post by DoubleGlazing »

eric_b wrote: post #9

I used to use AirBnB all the time. Lately I've switched back to using hotels almost exclusively. The camera/privacy thing is a big part of it. I empathize with the hosts to a degree - you don't want people doing outrageous things in your home. But the hosts want their cake and to eat it too. Don't rent out your home if you don't want the risk of people damaging it! (As a minor aside, I've also noticed the quality of…

Same here. A few years ago all our AirBnB experiences were good, but over time they have progressively got worse.

For example, one host housed us in what felt like a derelict hotel/doshouse with all sorts of weird people staying and no working locks or fire alarm. On another occasion we booked a cottage, but it had a blocked chimney and was spewing fumes and smoke in to the living area. And for our tenth wedding anniversary we booked another cottage where the host insisted on staying with us despite the listing saying we would have the property to ourselves. He also insisted on singing to us against our will, this was actually quite creepy.

We did of course raise concerns with AirBnB about the first two and left a negative review for the third. AirBnB did not care and crucially it did not seem to have an effect on the ratings of these properties. That just does not seem right.

I no longer trust AirBnB. I don't trust the listings, I don't trust the reviews and I certainly don't trust AirBnB itself to filter out bad hosts.

This could be because AirBnB has grown so fast and it has struggled to cope, or it could be a conscious business decision. Either way, we don't use them anymore.

Re: Airbnb and security camera disclosure

#73

Post by drm237 »

alkonaut wrote: post #39

AirBnB should launch a surveillance/alarm product that is a combined alarm and camera, which allows the host to look at camera images when the property property is empty ONLY (i.e. when the guest has left the property and armed the alarm) It would need to have e.g. a mechanically closed lens that opens when the alarm is armed in the home (so no one is home). This product could also include other helpful things for Ai…

Why would anyone want a security camera that only worked when a property was empty? Wouldn't that defeat the point of having a security camera?

Re: Airbnb and security camera disclosure

#75

Post by morpheuskafka »

pc86 wrote: post #70
larrywright wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was my first thought as well. If you’re an Airbnb host and capture video of a minor without clothes on, you could be in a world of legal trouble.

This is a pretty big oversimplification of the law. If you're not hiding the presence of cameras, they're not capturing private areas or those entrances directly, and you're not doing anything with that footage after the fact, it's unlikely to ever be an issue. There was an /r/legaladvice thread a few weeks ago where someone's security camera recorded a cleaning lady's 16 year old daughter changing, which certainly h…

I agree with your conclusion regarding CP laws, but regarding possible invasion of privacy or similar claims, I think there is a notable difference between those cases. In the reddit case, the daughter was an unauthorized trespasser who LAOP did not permit or know would be on the property, and certainly no reason to believe would be changing in his bedroom. Here, renting a home to families, the host may have reason to believe otherwise.

Re: Airbnb and security camera disclosure

#77

Post by Karunamon »

eric_b wrote: post #9

I used to use AirBnB all the time. Lately I've switched back to using hotels almost exclusively. The camera/privacy thing is a big part of it. I empathize with the hosts to a degree - you don't want people doing outrageous things in your home. But the hosts want their cake and to eat it too. Don't rent out your home if you don't want the risk of people damaging it! (As a minor aside, I've also noticed the quality of…

>It's funny to me, because AirBnB runs in to all the same problems we had with hotels a hundred years ago.

To a point. I find it a bit silly to regulate a single person renting out their house occasionally for short stretches (read: most users of AirBnB) to a corporation with multiple purpose built, million dollar facilities on expensive commercial property with their own staff and so forth.

Re: Airbnb and security camera disclosure

#78

Post by cmsonger »

morpheuskafka wrote: post #36
eric_b wrote: post #9

I used to use AirBnB all the time. Lately I've switched back to using hotels almost exclusively. The camera/privacy thing is a big part of it. I empathize with the hosts to a degree - you don't want people doing outrageous things in your home. But the hosts want their cake and to eat it too. Don't rent out your home if you don't want the risk of people damaging it! (As a minor aside, I've also noticed the quality of…

> It's funny to me, because AirBnB runs in to all the same problems we had with hotels a hundred years ago. We have dozens of taxes, rules, regulations, building codes etc now for hotels. I imagine at some point it will be the same for AirBnBs. What's old is new. An industry can only be disruptive for so long. Eventually, it will either fail, or be successful and become the new status quo.

> An industry can only be disruptive for so long.

I think another thing people tend to forget: regulations are often there for a real reason. Especially in the US there's a vocal majority who thinks that regulations are the problem. It's true sometimes. The reasons for the regulation were either bad in the first place, or have "aged out." But a lot of times: the regulation in the way of some business is there to protect consumers.

Re: Airbnb and security camera disclosure

#79

Post by jploh »

chimen wrote: post #3

I'm renting houses/apartments on AirBNB and place cameras outside the homes (to watch who's in front of the entrance door, activity). Placing them inside the home is a real privacy concern - a zone that I would never even consider. The reason for the cameras outside is to watch closely how many people enter as we're constantly fighting prostitution which leads to a pain with neighbors and other stuff.

We have two properties listed on Airbnb and have been a "superhost" for half a year.

Our listing has extra fees if there are more than 2 people booking and there have been a number of instances where guests would sneak in extra people.

We got a security camera for one of our listings recently. It's an attached suite with a private entrance. The camera is installed outside and it's disclosed with a check box toggled in Airbnb's listing settings.

Being a private person myself, I would not put a camera inside spaces meant private for guests. In these times, I'm even a bit wary on adding a CO alarm because guests might think it's a spy camera.

Obviously, not everyone has the same standards. The host described in the post is quite rude. I wouldn't communicate that way with a guest. Hopefully, Airbnb will reopen the case given the attention it has received.

Re: Airbnb and security camera disclosure

#80

Post by larrywright »

pc86 wrote: post #70
larrywright wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was my first thought as well. If you’re an Airbnb host and capture video of a minor without clothes on, you could be in a world of legal trouble.

This is a pretty big oversimplification of the law. If you're not hiding the presence of cameras, they're not capturing private areas or those entrances directly, and you're not doing anything with that footage after the fact, it's unlikely to ever be an issue. There was an /r/legaladvice thread a few weeks ago where someone's security camera recorded a cleaning lady's 16 year old daughter changing, which certainly h…

To be fair, I did qualify my statement with a “could”. IANAL.

This likely depends on where it happens as well, and how aggressive the legal system is there. I know that I’ve heard of cases where a high school official was attempting to handle a situation where a student was distributing nude pictures of another student via their phone, and because the teacher forwarded the message to themselves so that they could show law enforcement, the teacher ended up being charged with possession of child porn.

I guess all I’m saying is that I wouldn’t want to be in a position where I could inadvertently capture something like that. Maybe 90% of the time you’re fine as long as you handle it properly, but we’ve all seen situations where someone ends up in a bad situation despite having no ill intentions.

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