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The Painful Price of Becoming Jackie Chan

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Re: The Painful Price of Becoming Jackie Chan

#71

Post by jasonjei »

cribbles wrote: post #41
jasonjei wrote: post #27

Jackie Chan, though, is an apologist for the Mainland government, and even suggested that Taiwan, perhaps (as of now) the only Chinese-speaking democracy, has “too much freedom.”

This is directly quoted in the linked article.

Yes, it is, and I wanted people to be even more aware of something they might have glossed over in the article.

Here is even more of his thought process: “Noting the strong tensions in Hong Kong and Taiwan, he said, ‘I'm gradually beginning to feel that we Chinese need to be controlled. If we're not being controlled, we'll just do what we want.’”

Re: The Painful Price of Becoming Jackie Chan

#72

Post by magic_beans »

vinceguidry wrote: post #17

The author doesn't want to treat Chan's insistence on his account being an inspirational one and just wants to see it as sad. I'm reminded of a Quora answer by a guy who loved fighting, one phrase he used stuck out at me. "Great fighters have to kind of like getting hit." You can't push your body to its very limits without getting injured. Planning and preparing for it is not sad, it's smart. Chan's account should be…

But it IS sad. Jackie Chan is one -- ONE -- success story in a pool of what must be thousands of boys who will never see success and will always be poor and uneducated.

I was honestly shocked to learn how little Jackie Chan is educated -- and how little he wants to be -- despite his tremendous wealth.

Re: The Painful Price of Becoming Jackie Chan

#73

Post by jasonjei »

tomxor wrote: post #34
jasonjei wrote: post #27

Jackie Chan, though, is an apologist for the Mainland government, and even suggested that Taiwan, perhaps (as of now) the only Chinese-speaking democracy, has “too much freedom.”

> is an apologist for the Mainland government Yes but doesn't any Chinese person have to be if they want to maintain any kind of ability to travel in China? _Especially_ if they are famous.

That might be true, but I think HN readers are not commonly aware that he is one. He once said in December 2012, that “Hong Kong is a ‘city of protest,’ suggesting that demonstrators' rights in Hong Kong should be limited. The same month, in an interview with Phoenix TV, Chan stated that the United States was the ‘most corrupt’ country in the world.” This is a man whose made plenty of his fortune in the US.

Before we heap praise on Jackie Chan, I think it’s important to know his full background.

Re: The Painful Price of Becoming Jackie Chan

#74

Post by the_af »

chaostheory wrote: post #61
the_af wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Your opinion seems to echo the author's so it was an obvious question But it doesn't. I wrote a single paragraph, mostly describing what I thought was a key aspect of the article, and calling it "interesting". The author wrote a whole article addressing multiple things. I'm not even the submitter of the article! Your assumptions are unwarranted. > neither you nor the author mentioned this until now which made your…

Maybe I am arguing with you because I can't do the same with the author. Does your comment not reiterate the article's core ideas in a nice little package? The size of the content is irrelevant when it resonates with the larger work. Is it not natural to ask "What's the point?" when none was seemingly provided?

> Does your comment not reiterate the article's core ideas in a nice little package?

No?

> Maybe I am arguing with you because I can't do the same with the author.

Indeed.

Because my post was very short, let me quote it here in its entirety, and please tell me how it "resonates" with the article and what point you think I -- along with the author, apparently -- am making, or should be making:

> "Interesting how difficult and rough Jackie Chan's childhood was. He certainly succeeded, but at what cost? This article reviews how Chan downplays the hardships he was forced to endure (e.g. being essentially sold by his parents as an indentured servant when he was seven years old, complete with beatings and dismal living conditions) and instead chooses to focus on the end result, his success as an adult."

As you can see, I'm not trying to make any point. I've no idea what the article's author thinks, but you may have surmised I think the cost was too much. You'd be correct: I wouldn't wish this childhood on any kid, from Hong Kong or elsewhere. I'm glad Jackie Chan managed to survive and become successful, because I like him and his movies.

Re: The Painful Price of Becoming Jackie Chan

#75

Post by AchieveLife »

vinceguidry wrote: post #50
dbingham wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think what the previous commenter was reacting to in your post was not your defense of Chan an his memoir as inspirational, per se, but rather the specific phrase "If he can do it anyone can" as ignoring the fact that Chan -- and celebrities like him -- are extreme outliers, and extremely lucky for their success. Yes, Chan worked his ass off. But to have the success he did, he also had to have an insane amount of l…

This is why I added the daughters and princesses aside. The people of Hong Kong are not going to use Chan's example to try to be Jackie Chan. That's not the point. They're going to look carefully at their hero and decide that certain traits of his, like extreme courage and willingness to be brave, and choose to adopt them, just like a child does with their heroes. If you or I went over to Hong Kong, and told them to…

Hey Vince

I think we agree with you regarding the inspiration that Chan brings to his people.

There is more than inspiration, sweat, tears, and blood that plays the part of viral success as Chan has achieved. Luck and opportunity are the missing pieces.

The phrase "if Chan can do it then anyone can" is victim to survivorship bias (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivorship_bias)

To conclude: Chan achieved awesome things, he's an inspiration, it's good for others to strive for success, success is not determined on hard work alone.

Re: The Painful Price of Becoming Jackie Chan

#76

Post by fao_ »

madeuptempacct wrote: post #44
larrydag wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've often heard of BUDS Navy Seal training that its not IF you break a bone or get hurt its WHEN. I agree it takes a certain personality.

Anyone who thinks you can go through BUDS/RASP/RIP/Q-Course/whatever injured and "fight through it" is a delusional fanboy. The reality is that it has very little to do with willpower and everything to do with your physical condition before the course and your genetic potential. If you get hurt, you are out, and you are checking gates for 12 hours a day or go regular infantry. Yes, there are second chances, but that'…

all of your stuff for at least the last month has been shadowbanned. idk why.

Re: The Painful Price of Becoming Jackie Chan

#77

Post by chaostheory »

the_af wrote: post #74
chaostheory wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe I am arguing with you because I can't do the same with the author. Does your comment not reiterate the article's core ideas in a nice little package? The size of the content is irrelevant when it resonates with the larger work. Is it not natural to ask "What's the point?" when none was seemingly provided?

> Does your comment not reiterate the article's core ideas in a nice little package? No? > Maybe I am arguing with you because I can't do the same with the author. Indeed. Because my post was very short, let me quote it here in its entirety, and please tell me how it "resonates" with the article and what point you think I -- along with the author, apparently -- am making, or should be making: > "Interesting how diffi…

Let me dissect it.

> Interesting how difficult and rough Jackie Chan's childhood was. He certainly succeeded, but at what cost?

You echo the article's conclusion. You agree with its main idea.

> This article reviews how Chan downplays the hardships he was forced to endure (e.g. being essentially sold by his parents as an indentured servant when he was seven years old, complete with beatings and dismal living conditions) and instead chooses to focus on the end result, his success as an adult."

You now summarize the article. Can you not see how someone would feel that you agreed with the author?

> I've no idea what the article's author thinks, but you may have surmised I think the cost was too much

The author makes it very clear how he feels. It's pretty disingenuous for anyone who's read the article to say that.

Do you disagree with the article?

Re: The Painful Price of Becoming Jackie Chan

#78

Post by oarabbus_ »

vinceguidry wrote: post #17

The author doesn't want to treat Chan's insistence on his account being an inspirational one and just wants to see it as sad. I'm reminded of a Quora answer by a guy who loved fighting, one phrase he used stuck out at me. "Great fighters have to kind of like getting hit." You can't push your body to its very limits without getting injured. Planning and preparing for it is not sad, it's smart. Chan's account should be…

>I'm reminded of a Quora answer by a guy who loved fighting, one phrase he used stuck out at me. "Great fighters have to kind of like getting hit."

Floyd Mayweather disputes this.

Re: The Painful Price of Becoming Jackie Chan

#79

Post by geggam »

dbingham wrote: post #39
vinceguidry wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not demeaning and cruel to his fellow countrymen. They are what sustain him. Chan is somewhat popular in the West, but he's a veritable god in the East, like Manny Pacquiao is to Filipinos. You are the one demeaning the people there. Chan is the one inspiring them. It's silly to think that everybody in Hong Kong is going to compare themselves to Jackie Chan and lament that they won't be able to do what he does.…

I think what the previous commenter was reacting to in your post was not your defense of Chan an his memoir as inspirational, per se, but rather the specific phrase "If he can do it anyone can" as ignoring the fact that Chan -- and celebrities like him -- are extreme outliers, and extremely lucky for their success. Yes, Chan worked his ass off. But to have the success he did, he also had to have an insane amount of l…

This word "luck" is used quite often yet every time I see it applied it there is always someone who "seizes opportunity when it comes and does what it takes to succeed"

I suppose it is easier to write and also easier to dismiss other people doing something you simply don't want to put in the effort to do so or are too scared to do.

of course this is just my observation

Re: The Painful Price of Becoming Jackie Chan

#80

Post by ethbro »

dbingham wrote: post #39
vinceguidry wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not demeaning and cruel to his fellow countrymen. They are what sustain him. Chan is somewhat popular in the West, but he's a veritable god in the East, like Manny Pacquiao is to Filipinos. You are the one demeaning the people there. Chan is the one inspiring them. It's silly to think that everybody in Hong Kong is going to compare themselves to Jackie Chan and lament that they won't be able to do what he does.…

I think what the previous commenter was reacting to in your post was not your defense of Chan an his memoir as inspirational, per se, but rather the specific phrase "If he can do it anyone can" as ignoring the fact that Chan -- and celebrities like him -- are extreme outliers, and extremely lucky for their success. Yes, Chan worked his ass off. But to have the success he did, he also had to have an insane amount of l…

The greatest challenge to overcome is disbelief that you can do something.

Heroes have a place, precisely because they inspire.

I get what you're saying, but in any system having an aspirational role model is a benefit!

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