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Buttery smooth Emacs (2016)

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Re: Buttery smooth Emacs (2016)

#71

Post by pietrasagh »

snazz wrote: post #43
anthk wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny enough Emacspeak for the blind totally owns any new GUI technology. They can do everything from inside: IM, web, news, coding, playing music, reading ebooks, MUD's, check the mainstream news... https://tvraman.github.io/emacspeak/applications.html Your reality and bullshit applications such as Electron based bloatwares are a bad joke against disabled people.

They are also a bad joke against those of us who have underpowered or older machines. I love my 2006 MacBook (with OpenBSD) and I sure won't be running Electron on there even if it supported the OS. Emacs is wonderfully fast.

My machine is from 2008 (partially) and doing fine.

Re: Buttery smooth Emacs (2016)

#72

Post by pietrasagh »

Asooka wrote: post #32
pietrasagh wrote: post #15

I use emacs and vim quite rarely, only when I see potential benefit of it. Both have some amazing features but also seems to be locked in stone age on IT. In my opinion this is most deterring for new user - not "steep learning curve". I wonder why they refuse to open their eyes to current (or at least 2000's) state of technology. They cling to ancient foundation of their programs as something unmovable and unchangeab…

I would also like to know what exactly you mean. I've heard similar rants before and usually it boils down to 1) non-standard shortcuts, i.e. not implementing CUA; 2) being built around a terminal rather than designed around the capabilities of a raster display and a mouse. Emacs might actually get away with switching to CUA, it's already halfway there - you're always in "insert mode" and use Ctrl/Alt+letter for adva…

> bch 1 day ago [-] > >What features or properties would you give them to pull them out of “the Stone Age”, and to what benefit?

In my opinion original blog post quite clearly point out what is wrong with "backbone" on Emacs.

> Asooka 1 day ago | parent | on: Buttery smooth Emacs (2016) > >I would also like to know what exactly you mean.

By requiring to give concrete examples you two gave me good reason to rethink my point.

> 1) non-standard shortcuts, i.e. not implementing CUA;

When I was writing my post I had in back of my head this well known feeling of frustration when struggling to do simplest thing I have to read vim help for 10 minutes or google random forums. It may be that most of it is due to intermittent use of both those editors and "muscle memory" from MS Office and alike. If new users are required to stop using their most common (good or bad) habits it reduce potential user base at least 100 times. I work in typical large office (everyone 95% of time do some kind of text editing) and nobody know what or use vim or Emacs. Maybe it would be better idea to "stupefy" those great editors for default install for new users and allow current users to easily revert "normal" settings. CUA mode in Emacs looks interesting, I will give it a try.

> Parent was very rude (...)

Really? Very rude??? I'm wondering why reaction to my comment was so harsh... It seems that Emacs users have really soft skin ;-)

Re: Buttery smooth Emacs (2016)

#73

Post by [deleted] »

jwr wrote: post #2

I was planning on taking on porting Emacs to the iPad, given that it's a fantastically fast, light and low-power modern portable computer. But reading this gave me pause, I'm not sure I can dedicate as much time to this as it seems will be necessary...

[deleted]

Re: Buttery smooth Emacs (2016)

#74

Post by jwr »

kickingvegas wrote: post #7
jwr wrote: post #2

I was planning on taking on porting Emacs to the iPad, given that it's a fantastically fast, light and low-power modern portable computer. But reading this gave me pause, I'm not sure I can dedicate as much time to this as it seems will be necessary...

If you’re willing to give up local editing, Blink.sh/mosh + tmux + emacs/emacsclient on a remote host has done the job for me.

No, Blink does not work for Emacs.

This is a common misunderstanding: a serious Emacs setup will use multiple modifiers (in my case, I need at least Shift, Control, Meta/Alt and Super, preferably also Hyper). My Mac's command key is mapped to Super in my native Emacs. My Emacs as an IDE is basically unusable without the Super modifier. As there is no way to get the additional modifiers through Blink, this is a non-starter. Additionally, the terminal is a bit too slow, and there are a number of other issues (for example, remapping CapsLock to Control kind of works, but there is a small delay, so you get missed keystrokes sometimes).

So, while I use and love Blink, it does not help with Emacs at all.

Re: Buttery smooth Emacs (2016)

#75

Post by jwr »

leoc wrote: post #25
jwr wrote: post #2

I was planning on taking on porting Emacs to the iPad, given that it's a fantastically fast, light and low-power modern portable computer. But reading this gave me pause, I'm not sure I can dedicate as much time to this as it seems will be necessary...

> I was planning on taking on porting Emacs to the iPad I thought that was impossible anyway, given Apple's prohibitions on both GPL code and software runtimes in iOS apps? However I suppose Emacs could be sideloaded onto jailbroken iPads.

What exactly is impossible?

I can run any software I want on my iPad. No need to jailbreak. Just get Xcode and enjoy the freedom. Who said I need to upload it to the App Store?

(as a side note, these prohibitions seem to have been relaxed in recent years)

Re: Buttery smooth Emacs (2016)

#76

Post by anthk »

xte wrote: post #40
jrockway wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think he's just saying that the Unix philosophy of hundreds of different programs that communicate with pipes lost out, for him, to everything in one address space communicating with data structures, which is what Emacs is. Emacs was derided for being the anti-Unix. It's a text editor... but it has a shell, and a calendar, and reads email? CRAZY. WRONG. But in reality, the Unix way is showing its age and Emacs was…

Well... Unix bring the idea of being a "base platform" for third party software using simple IPC as a way to integrate any different kind of software. This work well in many case, but can't really scale so I consider UNIX model as a good model for "embedded devices" nothing more. Today's unix, only with X prove that unix model does not exists anymore. Emacs bring the idea that there is no real distinction between app…

- GuixSD is writting a Bash replecement shell based on Scheme =) - About Unix and Emacs, I like both approach, but Emacs tends to locks itself pretty often. Now, if there was an Acme-like editor without mouse chord and Vi keys, it would blast anything. Emacs has google-translate-at-point, I, myself, just use xsel on the clipboard and pipe it automatically to translate-shell. A cwm keybinding, and I get a translated text on a popup.

Re: Buttery smooth Emacs (2016)

#77

Post by sedachv »

jwr wrote: post #74
kickingvegas wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you’re willing to give up local editing, Blink.sh/mosh + tmux + emacs/emacsclient on a remote host has done the job for me.

No, Blink does not work for Emacs. This is a common misunderstanding: a serious Emacs setup will use multiple modifiers (in my case, I need at least Shift, Control, Meta/Alt and Super, preferably also Hyper). My Mac's command key is mapped to Super in my native Emacs. My Emacs as an IDE is basically unusable without the Super modifier. As there is no way to get the additional modifiers through Blink, this is a non-st…

> Meta/Alt

Meta and Alt are two separate modifiers, so if you get a JIS Japanese layout keyboard (QWERTY with extra modifiers), you can have Alt as a separate modifier, at least in X11, which has enough mod bits (mod1 through mod5) to cover everything. Handy for quick input of APL, Greek, etc. Unicode characters.

Re: Buttery smooth Emacs (2016)

#78

Post by sedachv »

anthk wrote: post #76
xte wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well... Unix bring the idea of being a "base platform" for third party software using simple IPC as a way to integrate any different kind of software. This work well in many case, but can't really scale so I consider UNIX model as a good model for "embedded devices" nothing more. Today's unix, only with X prove that unix model does not exists anymore. Emacs bring the idea that there is no real distinction between app…

- GuixSD is writting a Bash replecement shell based on Scheme =) - About Unix and Emacs, I like both approach, but Emacs tends to locks itself pretty often. Now, if there was an Acme-like editor without mouse chord and Vi keys, it would blast anything. Emacs has google-translate-at-point, I, myself, just use xsel on the clipboard and pipe it automatically to translate-shell. A cwm keybinding, and I get a translated t…

> I, myself, just use xsel on the clipboard and pipe it automatically to translate-shell

You can do SHELL-COMMAND-ON-REGION (M-|) and get the output in the echo area.

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