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Microsoft releases F# under Apache 2.0 license

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Re: Microsoft releases F# under Apache 2.0 license

#71

Post by bad_user »

lapusta wrote: post #53
8ren wrote: post #10

Java is Oracle stack, C# is MS stack, objective-C is Apple stack. Is there an opportunity for an open language with similar VM ease-of-use/performance tradeoffs - or is hardware now fast enough for the ease/speed of dynamic languages to fill that gap (Python, Ruby, Javascript, ...)?

Java isn't just Oracle stack. It's also SAP, IBM, Red Hat(JBoss), VMWare(SpringSource) & Google stack. The only thing you need from Oracle nowdays is JDK, and with OpenJDK becoming a standard - you need nothing.

OpenJDK is not a standard. Java itself is not a standard open to third-parties, unless Sun/Oracle wants to.

It's not the JDK that you need from Oracle for Java to be a standard, but rather the JCK.

This issue is a couple of years old and hasn't been solved: http://www.apache.org/jcp/sunopenletter.html

Unless by "standard" you mean what everybody uses.

Re: Microsoft releases F# under Apache 2.0 license

#72

Post by bad_user »

rbanffy wrote: post #60
sid0 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You post uninformed crap like this, then complain about being downvoted for anything "negative against Microsoft": http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1800507

I complain when I am not wrong. This time I was very wrong. And now I know Apache has an explicit patent grant, something I didn't just 7 hours ago. BTW, I upvoted equark's comment. And thanks for pointing me to my previous comment: I forgot to add the "but, karma, burn" part...

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=apache+license+patents+grant

Re: Microsoft releases F# under Apache 2.0 license

#73

Post by bad_user »

rbanffy wrote: post #56
mfukar wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

rbanffy is anti-Microsoft, and doesn't waste a second in making it known. It's no use trying to reason or discuss with him about this - others have tried.

I am not "anti-Microsoft". I am just old enough. I also worry, considering recent moves (and that's not only from Microsoft), that some companies (Microsoft among them) may be taking strategic positions to disrupt the free and open-source software ecosystems that threaten their dominance of their niches. Yesterday, for instance, Oracle made a huge PR splash in the MySQL space. One can't ignore it.

     some companies (Microsoft among them) may be taking strategic positions 
     to disrupt the free and open-source software ecosystems
Nice to join the party, some "Free Software proponents" have been doing that for years, doing nothing but going around and pissing on other people's efforts.

Re: Microsoft releases F# under Apache 2.0 license

#74

Post by ntoshev »

equark wrote: post #6
aphexairlines wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does the Apache license include patent licensing? Java is open source too.

Yes.

Remember this only applies to the F# compiler and not to the .Net runtime which you need to run the compiled code. Microsoft is friendly with Mono currently, but so was Sun with Android.

Re: Microsoft releases F# under Apache 2.0 license

#75

Post by lapusta »

bad_user wrote: post #71
lapusta wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Java isn't just Oracle stack. It's also SAP, IBM, Red Hat(JBoss), VMWare(SpringSource) & Google stack. The only thing you need from Oracle nowdays is JDK, and with OpenJDK becoming a standard - you need nothing.

OpenJDK is not a standard. Java itself is not a standard open to third-parties, unless Sun/Oracle wants to. It's not the JDK that you need from Oracle for Java to be a standard, but rather the JCK. This issue is a couple of years old and hasn't been solved: http://www.apache.org/jcp/sunopenletter.html Unless by "standard" you mean what everybody uses.

http://openjdk.java.net/groups/conformance/JckAccess/index.h... http://www.infoq.com/news/2007/08/openjdk-jck

Re: Microsoft releases F# under Apache 2.0 license

#76

Post by 8ren »

SkyMarshal wrote: post #24
8ren wrote: post #10

Java is Oracle stack, C# is MS stack, objective-C is Apple stack. Is there an opportunity for an open language with similar VM ease-of-use/performance tradeoffs - or is hardware now fast enough for the ease/speed of dynamic languages to fill that gap (Python, Ruby, Javascript, ...)?

Haskell, Ocaml, and Scala? All are open languages, cross platform, and first two at least are Free. And Scala runs on both the JVM and .NET, covering all three platforms. Is that what you meant?

Not exactly: many languages are open; my focus was on the ease/speed tradeoff.

Haskell and the ml family only have ease-of-use for people who think higher order predicate calculi have ease-of-use - some of whom will vigorously argue that everyone should find them easy-to-use.

(I don't know enough scala to form a judgment, but I haven't heard it being touted as primarily having ease-of-use, in contrast to Python and Ruby.)

Re: Microsoft releases F# under Apache 2.0 license

#77

Post by 8ren »

lapusta wrote: post #53
8ren wrote: post #10

Java is Oracle stack, C# is MS stack, objective-C is Apple stack. Is there an opportunity for an open language with similar VM ease-of-use/performance tradeoffs - or is hardware now fast enough for the ease/speed of dynamic languages to fill that gap (Python, Ruby, Javascript, ...)?

Java isn't just Oracle stack. It's also SAP, IBM, Red Hat(JBoss), VMWare(SpringSource) & Google stack. The only thing you need from Oracle nowdays is JDK, and with OpenJDK becoming a standard - you need nothing.

Oracle owns Java. They will attempt to turn it into a profit center. The Google suit is one example. Another way is to make their database/s and products perform better, by integrating them more tightly with Oracle's version of Java (which includes BEA System's version) - analogously to MS making Office apps perform better under Windows.

Sure, it's against the concept of a public spec, and OpenJDK; and it might not work, or at worst fragment the Java standard and destroy much of its value - but I can't see how Oracle could help themselves from doing this. It's inevitable.

Re: Microsoft releases F# under Apache 2.0 license

#78

Post by nailer »

aphexairlines wrote: post #5
gphil wrote: post #2

This is a good move. With Java under Oracle's control, Microsoft has a lot to gain by embracing open source licensing.

Does the Apache license include patent licensing? Java is open source too.

> Java is open source too.

I don't think that's correct. AFAIK there's no certified OSS Java. And if it isn't certified, it can't be called Java.

It would be correct to say there's Open Source 'Java compatible' environments.

Re: Microsoft releases F# under Apache 2.0 license

#79

Post by rbanffy »

bad_user wrote: post #73
rbanffy wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not "anti-Microsoft". I am just old enough. I also worry, considering recent moves (and that's not only from Microsoft), that some companies (Microsoft among them) may be taking strategic positions to disrupt the free and open-source software ecosystems that threaten their dominance of their niches. Yesterday, for instance, Oracle made a huge PR splash in the MySQL space. One can't ignore it.

some companies (Microsoft among them) may be taking strategic positions to disrupt the free and open-source software ecosystems Nice to join the party, some " Free Software proponents " have been doing that for years, doing nothing but going around and pissing on other people's efforts.

Care to give an example?

Re: Microsoft releases F# under Apache 2.0 license

#80

Post by fiveo »

keyle wrote: post #19

Are we getting any closer of developing .NET / WPF apps on Mac? (Wishful thinking, shameless cry)

I read a few articles yesterday regarding WPF/Silverlight and politics inside Microsoft written by ex-Silverlight Product Manager:

http://www.riagenic.com/

(Check the blog section)

Hopefully that can give you some idea what the future will hold for WPF.

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