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Elon Musk Unveils Boring Co's First Tunnel

latimes.com

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Re: Elon Musk Unveils Boring Co's First Tunnel

#71

Post by noobermin »

twblalock wrote: post #68
Tiktaalik wrote: post #36

What a gong show and waste of everyone's time. https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1075230308545454080 How can this man honestly think this sort of system could be higher capacity than a subway?

It's not about capacity. It's about convenience. Subway systems are absolutely useless unless the stations are spaced very close together and there are other means of transit from the station to where you want to go. There is no point taking the subway when you need to walk several miles from the station to your ultimate destination. There are only a handful of cities in the United States dense enough for a useful su…

Why not do "the stations are spaced very close together and there are other means of transit from the station to where you want to go." Scooters and bikes are a great way to do the latter.

Re: Elon Musk Unveils Boring Co's First Tunnel

#72

Post by noobermin »

unmole wrote: post #38
Tiktaalik wrote: post #36

What a gong show and waste of everyone's time. https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1075230308545454080 How can this man honestly think this sort of system could be higher capacity than a subway?

I think the term you're looking for is "reality distortion field".

I don't understand this. HN is better than most forums but seriously, the level at which people's minds online turn off for Elon is staggeringly confusing.

Re: Elon Musk Unveils Boring Co's First Tunnel

#73

Post by twblalock »

noobermin wrote: post #71
twblalock wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not about capacity. It's about convenience. Subway systems are absolutely useless unless the stations are spaced very close together and there are other means of transit from the station to where you want to go. There is no point taking the subway when you need to walk several miles from the station to your ultimate destination. There are only a handful of cities in the United States dense enough for a useful su…

Why not do "the stations are spaced very close together and there are other means of transit from the station to where you want to go." Scooters and bikes are a great way to do the latter.

> Why not do "the stations are spaced very close together and there are other means of transit from the station to where you want to go." Scooters and bikes are a great way to do the latter.

No they are not. Scooters and bikes are a great way to arrive at your destination sweaty, and you are at great risk of being run over by cars.

Multi-modal transportation only works if your coworkers don't care what you smell like.

I won't take public transit unless it's more convenient than driving a car. Nor will most other sane people. Even in the countries with the best public transit, nobody uses it when it is more convenient to drive. It's wonderful for dense cities and it's worthless everywhere else. By "dense" I mean London, Paris, and Tokyo. Once you get even 10 miles outside the centers of those cities you will find that driving is better, and that's what people do.

Re: Elon Musk Unveils Boring Co's First Tunnel

#74

Post by beobab »

noobermin wrote: post #71
twblalock wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not about capacity. It's about convenience. Subway systems are absolutely useless unless the stations are spaced very close together and there are other means of transit from the station to where you want to go. There is no point taking the subway when you need to walk several miles from the station to your ultimate destination. There are only a handful of cities in the United States dense enough for a useful su…

Why not do "the stations are spaced very close together and there are other means of transit from the station to where you want to go." Scooters and bikes are a great way to do the latter.

Why not both? He's got money to spend.

Re: Elon Musk Unveils Boring Co's First Tunnel

#75

Post by steve_musk »

endless1234 wrote: post #65
reissbaker wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

75 seconds is really, really long. Cars on a highway don't leave 75 seconds in between each other; if a cutting-edge train does, that starts to imply that density issues do exist for subway systems. And how expensive was it to build the train? If you can build 3x the tunnels for AVs as you can train tunnels and trains for the same price, actual throughput dollar-for-dollar in infra spend would be much better with Bor…

>75 seconds is really, really long. Cars on a highway don't leave 75 seconds in between each other ..and? A car also doesn't carry 500 people.

But 75 cars spaced 1 second apart...

Re: Elon Musk Unveils Boring Co's First Tunnel

#76

Post by reissbaker »

endless1234 wrote: post #65
reissbaker wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

75 seconds is really, really long. Cars on a highway don't leave 75 seconds in between each other; if a cutting-edge train does, that starts to imply that density issues do exist for subway systems. And how expensive was it to build the train? If you can build 3x the tunnels for AVs as you can train tunnels and trains for the same price, actual throughput dollar-for-dollar in infra spend would be much better with Bor…

>75 seconds is really, really long. Cars on a highway don't leave 75 seconds in between each other ..and? A car also doesn't carry 500 people.

Right, but 15 SUVs 5s apart carry 105 people, and if they can actually travel at an average 150mph, that's faster than the average speed of Skytrain's fastest line by another 3x — so, now we're looking at 315 people moved through the space at the same time.

Factor in cost advantages of the tunnel — 4x cheaper mile-for-mile for the prototype, it seems like? — and the same dollars spent on Boring Co tunnels could actually move a lot more people than Skytrain: you can build 4x the tunnels, moving nearly 1300 people instead of 500.

Even if SUVs can only match the fastest average Skytrain line (50mph), that's still fairly competitive even at the current cost per mile of a Boring Co tunnel. Assuming they can bring cost down further (which is the goal of the company), they could still end up beating trains in terms of people moved per dollar spent.

Listen, I'm not saying it'll happen. But the dismissiveness here reminds me of the "Model 3 will never cost less to build than the price to sell it!!!!!" or "Tesla will never make more than 1000 cars per week!!!" or cash crunch or etc hysteria. I guess Elon attracts that by constantly missing deadlines, but he often still delivers; he just delivers a year or so late.

Re: Elon Musk Unveils Boring Co's First Tunnel

#77

Post by npunt »

twblalock wrote: post #70
npunt wrote: post #55

Worth considering that a single family luxury car is not the only vehicle type that could be in these tunnels. Automation allows for all sorts of new options in vehicles. This is a platform and many services can sit atop it. No reason why people can’t develop a carpooling service for 6-12 person vans and run those on this. Or services that travel to clients rather than visa versa. Also, and very important to the cost…

Why would I take a van if I could take my own luxury car? If I was going to take a van I might as well take the subway. It would probably be more comfortable and roomy.

If there’s no subway nearby, how would you do that?

Also not everyone can afford a luxury car.

Just imagine lyft, lyft line, and a bigger lyft line. They can all coexist.

Re: Elon Musk Unveils Boring Co's First Tunnel

#78

Post by noobermin »

twblalock wrote: post #73
noobermin wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not do "the stations are spaced very close together and there are other means of transit from the station to where you want to go." Scooters and bikes are a great way to do the latter.

> Why not do "the stations are spaced very close together and there are other means of transit from the station to where you want to go." Scooters and bikes are a great way to do the latter. No they are not. Scooters and bikes are a great way to arrive at your destination sweaty, and you are at great risk of being run over by cars. Multi-modal transportation only works if your coworkers don't care what you smell like…

Are we talking about elonholes outside of cities now? I thought we were talking about cities.

The scooters I'm talking about are electric so you won't sweat. e-bikes are also a thing and they are becoming more of a thing. Finally, I'm sorry you feel uncomfortable around people. Not everyone does and for the most part public transit smelling is a meme that doesn't square most of the time.

Re: Elon Musk Unveils Boring Co's First Tunnel

#79

Post by noobermin »

beobab wrote: post #74
noobermin wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not do "the stations are spaced very close together and there are other means of transit from the station to where you want to go." Scooters and bikes are a great way to do the latter.

Why not both? He's got money to spend.

He's free to do whatever. Governments shouldn't shell out money to give to him because his solution isn't one.

Re: Elon Musk Unveils Boring Co's First Tunnel

#80

Post by twblalock »

npunt wrote: post #77
twblalock wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would I take a van if I could take my own luxury car? If I was going to take a van I might as well take the subway. It would probably be more comfortable and roomy.

If there’s no subway nearby, how would you do that? Also not everyone can afford a luxury car. Just imagine lyft, lyft line, and a bigger lyft line. They can all coexist.

> Also not everyone can afford a luxury car.

Ok fine. Why would I take a van if I can take my own car, period?

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