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How Facebook Is Fueling the French Populist Rage

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Re: How Facebook Is Fueling the French Populist Rage

#71
"France has riots" is hardly news, since '68 onwards. This time it's not the banlieus or the students, but what in the UK we'd call "white van man"; the self-employed working class.

The spread of fake news at viral speed is somewhat new, but people taking to the streets is a much more normal part of French politics.

Re: How Facebook Is Fueling the French Populist Rage

#72
post #36
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the protests against the democratically elected leadership during the Arab spring... Oh wait. You may hate something equally under any regime but there's a huge difference when that something is done in a democracy versus basically any other common form or government. In democracies issues can be (are?) solved at the election booth. Not so much in a dictatorship, a monarchy, or any "pseudo-democracy" (see Chi…

Protesting is very democratic. South Korea showed that to the world. Sure, South Koreans could wait one more year and solve the problem at the election booth, but protesting solved the problem faster.

Protesting yes. Breaking the law... maybe also democratic. This doesn't change the fact that there is no comparing this to Arab spring.

The same act can have very different meaning in different contexts. In this case it doesn't feel like those protesters have exhausted their options before jumping to violence. As such this is a condemnable act.

Re: How Facebook Is Fueling the French Populist Rage

#73

I'm leery of any movement that the media refers to as "populist" as it seems many of these movements in the past years have been fueled by concerted efforts by despotic governments to destabilize democracies (Ukraine, US) or spread internal discord (Myanmar). Facebook and Twitter play a key role in these influence operations by not adequately detecting and removing accounts controlled by these despotic governments un…

Frankly "populism" has been a code word for nationalism/racism/xenophobia my entire life.

Re: How Facebook Is Fueling the French Populist Rage

#74
post #39

Genuine question: Is it just me or the whole 'fake-news' concept seems like an excuse for ~old~ traditional (failing?) media to continue to act as gatekeepers of information ? I've seen an increasing number of alternative / independent journalists and websites being given the label of "fake-news site" recently and I'm a bit worried to see that trend continue.

I'm sure it's not just you but you could still be wrong. :>

What you consider alternative / independent journalists could be charlatans by journalistic standards. It's hard to say in the abstract.

Re: How Facebook Is Fueling the French Populist Rage

#75
post #9

And it could merely be that folk on the edge of French society — truck drivers, provincial plumbers, builders, deliverymen, teachers, parents — are saying `Enough is enough. Stop making our lives harder.’

How exactly are truck drivers, provincial plumbers, builders, deliverymen, teachers and parents parents on the edge of French society? How are their lives being made harder?

Those classes seem disproportionately affected by higher transportation costs in already low-margin but nessarry jobs and careers. While the effect may be exaggerated, it is not imaginary by any stretch.

Re: How Facebook Is Fueling the French Populist Rage

#76
post #37
post #2

How is this any different from the Arab Spring? Why should this be silenced while the Arab Spring had to amplified?

Because there is no moral equivalence between the despotisms of the middle east and the elected government of a secular democratic republic. Overturning tyrany is good. Attempting to overturn democracies in favor of mob rule is bad.

It's a lot more of a gray area than democracy vs. despotism. Much of this unpopular policy is emanating from Brussels, made by a chamber of unelected officials - closer to a Politburo than a Senate.

Re: How Facebook Is Fueling the French Populist Rage

#77
post #47
post #4

> Sometimes, the social network carries obvious fake news, such as images of bleeding protesters taken two years ago in Spain or spreads the rumors of tanks ready to move against the Yellow Vests (15,000 interactions). This video of senseless police brutality looks in fact to be pretty real and from the latest events: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wK8b4plAlJQ&feature=youtu.be . Yeah, I'm pretty sure there's lots of…

People getting their ass beat for trying to set fire to a McDonalds while protesting the high cost of living deserve no tears, I'm sorry. Also, if you're going to pick a fight with a crew in full riot gear it's best to not get cornered by them.

There's a very good reason why there are even international treaties forbidding an army force to physically molest the opposing side once the latter has surrendered, because that way the conflict doesn't need to escalate to the point of total destruction for both sides.

More to the point, the protesters seeing this video will know that surrendering to the police will probably get their arms and feet broken so next time they protest they'll do almost anything in order to not let that happen, i.e. they'll become even more violent or/and they'll come better prepared for physical confrontations (better body-gear, actual weapons).

Re: How Facebook Is Fueling the French Populist Rage

#78

Can someone explain the nuances of these protests? Am I wrong to find it weird that the seemingly liberal, "woke" French are rioting over a carbon tax? Aren't carbon taxes progressive and environmentally responsible?

They're also a burden on poorer people, especially from rural regions (where cars are necessary), proposed by a government that's generally been seen as helping the rich and burdening the poor. It's less a protest against that specific tax in isolation, and more against the general trend, that was triggered by the proposed tax as the last straw.

Re: How Facebook Is Fueling the French Populist Rage

#79
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems that this content source is only concerned about news about prominent tech companies, which matches their Palo Alto location. Facebook’s been going through the grinder because they’ve recently had a lot of evidence against them come out; of course technically interested people care about a leader in research and industry. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/from?site=mondaynote.com

doesn't explain why there are at least 2 similar stories at any time in HN frontpage I mean, from an entrepreneurial standpoint,maybe "antifacebook as a service" is a valid idea?

250 pages of documents being released contradicting prior statements could reasonably be expected to cause an increase of coverage.

Re: How Facebook Is Fueling the French Populist Rage

#80
post #51
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because there is no moral equivalence between the despotisms of the middle east and the elected government of a secular democratic republic. Overturning tyrany is good. Attempting to overturn democracies in favor of mob rule is bad.

Democracy is not the perfect system that some people purport it to be. You get someone elected, someone who is far from perfect but he's the only likely candidate to win, so what can you do. And then that person has 4 years to screw you over. That's not just.

Who said democracy is a perfect system? I certainly didn't. Democracy is flawed because people are flawed. But western representative democracy -- limited democracy supported by strong institutions -- is the best way to avoid autocracy on one side and mob rule on the other. There are no perfect solutions.
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