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Microsoft and Docker team up to make packaging cloud-native applications easier

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Re: Microsoft and Docker team up to make packaging cloud-native applications easier

#71

Post by vtesucks »

beavis2 wrote: post #54
mcny wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for being here and answering questions. Is there any way you can (internally) push to remove roadblocks for the insanity of Windows Home vs Pro for Docker/Hyper-V? I know this isn't possible in the short run but I think it prevents a lot of children from getting started with Docker. Based on what Scott Guttrie's team has been able to accomplish, I am cautiously optimistic that this is possible if there is e…

If you want to play the "think of the children" card, then let's start by discouraging development on Windows.

Do you have any specific points or you're just trying to be edgy?

Hint- no circular arguments allowed. For example- UNIX line endings are '\n' so they are better so look UNIX is better. I mention this because I've heard this from my friends none of whom have ever programmed a raw terminal.

Re: Microsoft and Docker team up to make packaging cloud-native applications easier

#73

Post by nikanj »

scarface74 wrote: post #59
beavis2 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want to play the "think of the children" card, then let's start by discouraging development on Windows.

I would discourage development for Windows but not necessarily on Windows. I develop on Windows and deploy to Linux all of the time. I also have started using the Linux subsystem for Windows. I’ve been developing for and on Windows for over 20 years. The “Windows Tax” didn’t become a concern of mine until I started using cloud providers. The cost of Microsoft’s licenses was someone else’s problem. But, when every res…

Why do you need 8x more memory for Windows? The NT kernel isn’t 8x worse than Linux, not even close.

Re: Microsoft and Docker team up to make packaging cloud-native applications easier

#74

Post by ahje »

nikanj wrote: post #73
scarface74 wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would discourage development for Windows but not necessarily on Windows. I develop on Windows and deploy to Linux all of the time. I also have started using the Linux subsystem for Windows. I’ve been developing for and on Windows for over 20 years. The “Windows Tax” didn’t become a concern of mine until I started using cloud providers. The cost of Microsoft’s licenses was someone else’s problem. But, when every res…

Why do you need 8x more memory for Windows? The NT kernel isn’t 8x worse than Linux, not even close.

Personally, I've run small LAMP stacks on VPS's with 256 MB RAM and without major issues. Running a web server on a Windows VPS usually requires more than that (albeit not 8 time as much.

Re: Microsoft and Docker team up to make packaging cloud-native applications easier

#75

Post by KAKAN »

geggam wrote: post #70
ecnahc515 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of families already have a Windows computer and not everyone can afford a spare computer to run Linux on, and some people's PCs can't run a full Linux in a VM either. Windows has a lot of ways to develop for Linux/Unix now. It sure isn't FOSS, but let's not discourage a promising way to get more people into software, even if it's on Windows.

Installing Linux over Windows is still free.

The "installing" part is the problem here. I installed Manjaro XFCE in my parents' old PCs, and they're now enjoying it. They never did it because they didn't know how to and didn't want to destroy their already working, but slow PC. Teach that, and I'm pretty sure everyone would love the customizability that the world of Linux provides.

Re: Microsoft and Docker team up to make packaging cloud-native applications easier

#76

Post by tialaramex »

nikanj wrote: post #73
scarface74 wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would discourage development for Windows but not necessarily on Windows. I develop on Windows and deploy to Linux all of the time. I also have started using the Linux subsystem for Windows. I’ve been developing for and on Windows for over 20 years. The “Windows Tax” didn’t become a concern of mine until I started using cloud providers. The cost of Microsoft’s licenses was someone else’s problem. But, when every res…

Why do you need 8x more memory for Windows? The NT kernel isn’t 8x worse than Linux, not even close.

It's a philosophical difference. NT doesn't do overcommit. In theory overcommit is dangerous (and if you decide that matters you can tell Linux not to do it) but in practice it's usually a huge RAM saving.

If your apparent virtual size is 2.6GB but there's actually only 240MB of resident memory, Linux will run on 256MB of RAM. NT requires enough RAM for the entire 2.6GB plus overheads.

This is especially frustrating if you have orchestration services that would have recovered from the unlikely event of OOM since avoiding OOM is literally the only reason for NT's choice.

Re: Microsoft and Docker team up to make packaging cloud-native applications easier

#77

Post by sbhn »

amirhirsch wrote: post #58

NOTE: THIS HEADLINE DOES NOT MEAN THAT DOCKER WORKS IN WINDOWS I have spent all day today trying to switch from running Docker in a Vagrant to running Docker for windows and can say without question that Docker and Windows are incompatible as of today. Specific issues are numerous, but primarily it is slow, and has stupid defaults, volumes will drive you nuts, don't use with cygwin or Ubuntu for Windows either (volum…

The trick is to install the legacy docker toolbox with kitematic and docker-compose. The desktop shortcuts dont wirk, so you will need to also fix those. You will also need ensure you are using the oracle vm virtual box. Its all a real pain to get to work, but it seems to be ok, for simple projects.

Re: Microsoft and Docker team up to make packaging cloud-native applications easier

#78

Post by geggam »

KAKAN wrote: post #75
geggam wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Installing Linux over Windows is still free.

The "installing" part is the problem here. I installed Manjaro XFCE in my parents' old PCs, and they're now enjoying it. They never did it because they didn't know how to and didn't want to destroy their already working, but slow PC. Teach that, and I'm pretty sure everyone would love the customizability that the world of Linux provides.

I would think any developer should be able to install ubuntu these days.

Re: Microsoft and Docker team up to make packaging cloud-native applications easier

#79

Post by amouat »

mnoorali wrote: post #42
sytse wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The announcement talks about "reliably provision application resources in different environments". Does that mean multiple clouds? I'm asking because in the Ansible example in https://github.com/deislabs/bundles/blob/master/ansiblebase/... I see AZURE_TENANT AZURE_CLIENT_ID AZURE_SECRET AZURE_SUBSCRIPTION_ID but nothing for other clouds. Would you have to add configuration for every cloud you have to support?

The format is cloud agnostic. Here is an example of a bundle that Bitnami built that provisions wordpress and Amazon RDS https://github.com/bitnami/cnab-bundles/tree/master/wordpres...

I'm a little confused by this.

I get the specification is cloud agnostic. But it looks like the developer needs to write the underlying code to provision and maintain the application on the various clouds. It feels like a too thin abstraction. And it seems pretty leaky currently; the examples all have hard and specific requirements e.g. Azure, k8s etc.

What am I missing? Is the idea that we will create tooling to automatically create the provisioning and maintenance code?

Re: Microsoft and Docker team up to make packaging cloud-native applications easier

#80

Post by [deleted] »

vtesucks wrote: post #71
beavis2 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want to play the "think of the children" card, then let's start by discouraging development on Windows.

Do you have any specific points or you're just trying to be edgy? Hint- no circular arguments allowed. For example- UNIX line endings are '\n' so they are better so look UNIX is better. I mention this because I've heard this from my friends none of whom have ever programmed a raw terminal.

[deleted]
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