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Developer on Call

henrikwarne.com

71–80 of 246 posts

Re: Developer on Call

#71
Kayak.com co-founder Paul English on this topic (2010):

"The engineers and I handle customer support. When I tell people that, they look at me like I'm smoking crack. They say, "Why would you pay an engineer $150,000 to answer phones when you could pay someone in Arizona $8 an hour?" If you make the engineers answer e-mails and phone calls from the customers, the second or third time they get the same question, they'll actually stop what they're doing and fix the code. Then we don't have those questions anymore." https://www.inc.com/magazine/20100201/the-way-i-work-paul-en...

(This is of course a bit different thing, probably he's not suggesting to having those engineers take the calls middle of the night).

Re: Developer on Call

#72

1. for every week of oncall a developer should get 1 day off. 2. If developer had to work nights, he should be compensation with additional days off. 3. no payment would reduce the stress so we should not ask for payment compensation. 4. We as developers have let this on us too easily, to eliminate stress devs must form a group and do not sign contracts which do not provide automatic day off for oncall.

It's your point of view. I know lots of developers who don't care about extra days off, they just want the additional $$ for being on call (if there are no issues it's just easy money). The same for the rare occasion they need to handle some issue (night overtime is paid x2). We have an on-call schedule in our dept which is filled up on a voluntary basis. Every time we add new months to it (it's Google spreadsheet), they are "sold out" within few hours.

Re: Developer on Call

#73

On my last job somebody told my it's my turn for the support phone. In our case text messages if web based products are down. I never heard of it before, not during my interview or first month, never. I didn't know how to react and said sure, here's my number. After waking up twice during the night I decided to mute my phone completly from 10pm to 7am. Sometimes I woke up and had 50 messages and would try to solve th…

> After waking up twice during the night I decided to mute my phone completly from 10pm to 7am.

Have you considered mentioning this to your colleagues, boss or anyone telling you it's your turn? If not - it's really not cool towards your colleagues, boss and organization in general.

Re: Developer on Call

#74
As my company has grown (I am an early employee), our on call system has gone through a few changes.

A decade ago, we had a physical pager that we handed off every week. The pager was tied to our ticketing system and anyone could create a ticket for it. It worked for the most part, but every now and then the "entire system is down" issue would turn out to by Mary in accounting's internet cable was loose.

Then we staffed up and hired a 24/7 on call support staff. We also went from four small Dev teams to dozens. These teams never felt the impact of their decisions on the support staff and would happily thtow code over the wall. They didn't feel like it was their job. Having worked in those trenches, I spent a good portion of my time trying to make it easier for them to troubleshoot our applications.

Over the past couple of years, we've moved to a more modern model. We still have the dedicated first line of defense to handle things outside of business hours. But if something happens and they can't handle it, there are on call rotations for all products they can escalate to. Eventually that escalation still makes it up to me, but having the teams in it has made it more likely that they will put the effort in to making support easier.

I think it is important to have developers support their applications as long as the culture and process allow for it to be sustainable. Part of that is making sure the people on the rotation actually understand the systems they are supporting. Another is making sure each event results in learning and hopefully changes that prevent it. And another is recognizing that when someone has been up in the middle of the night, their productivity will decrease and they should be allowed to recover.

Re: Developer on Call

#75

1. for every week of oncall a developer should get 1 day off. 2. If developer had to work nights, he should be compensation with additional days off. 3. no payment would reduce the stress so we should not ask for payment compensation. 4. We as developers have let this on us too easily, to eliminate stress devs must form a group and do not sign contracts which do not provide automatic day off for oncall.

We did this, but 2 days off (things may happen late night). Even if nothing happens during the weekend.

Re: Developer on Call

#76
Here's how my company does it:

- $200 for being available for the week. Must be within 1hr of the office should the call require you to come in to use special equipment

- All calls first are screened by our Sales team: "Can this wait until business hours tomorrow? There is a substantial call out fee"

- 1hr minimum for phone support

- 3hr minimum for us logging in with our laptops

- 1.5x rate for calls during "days" (7am-10pm Mon->Sat)

- 2.0x rate for nights/sundays/stats

I've done this for like... 4 years now? Its pretty decent overall, you can get some really great weeks where customers just want things fixed NOW so a lazy Sunday watching Netflix turns into 6hr @ 2.0x rate (even though you only worked for 15 minutes). What this creates is an environment where most of the guys on rotation are happy to swap you calls if you have something going on.

And with all that laid out, I want to say I agree with a lot of what the article says. Problems only exist for so long before people take the effort to fix them. Lots more time goes into testing and making sure we have a clear rollback plan when major installs go in. I think its pushed people to follow my lead a lot more in making very verbose logging options so people not familiar with the project are able to quickly pull up logs and understand the issues.

Overall, I recommend it. I can see how it may not fit in different work environments, but I find it a great addition to my job both in giving me a wider breadth of understanding the work my company does and a bit of extra pay.

Re: Developer on Call

#77
post #72

1. for every week of oncall a developer should get 1 day off. 2. If developer had to work nights, he should be compensation with additional days off. 3. no payment would reduce the stress so we should not ask for payment compensation. 4. We as developers have let this on us too easily, to eliminate stress devs must form a group and do not sign contracts which do not provide automatic day off for oncall.

It's your point of view. I know lots of developers who don't care about extra days off, they just want the additional $$ for being on call (if there are no issues it's just easy money). The same for the rare occasion they need to handle some issue (night overtime is paid x2). We have an on-call schedule in our dept which is filled up on a voluntary basis. Every time we add new months to it (it's Google spreadsheet),…

With this approach company loses long term, IMHO. Productivity goes down (8 hours work day + on call, next day again) + company pays extra.

Re: Developer on Call

#78
post #73

On my last job somebody told my it's my turn for the support phone. In our case text messages if web based products are down. I never heard of it before, not during my interview or first month, never. I didn't know how to react and said sure, here's my number. After waking up twice during the night I decided to mute my phone completly from 10pm to 7am. Sometimes I woke up and had 50 messages and would try to solve th…

> After waking up twice during the night I decided to mute my phone completly from 10pm to 7am. Have you considered mentioning this to your colleagues, boss or anyone telling you it's your turn? If not - it's really not cool towards your colleagues, boss and organization in general.

I see where you are coming from, but unless it was something I specifically agreed to in my employment contract I wouldn't be "on call" during normal sleeping hours, either.

(I was on call every 3rd week back in my biomed days but I was explicitly compensated above my normal pay for this)

Re: Developer on Call

#79

1. for every week of oncall a developer should get 1 day off. 2. If developer had to work nights, he should be compensation with additional days off. 3. no payment would reduce the stress so we should not ask for payment compensation. 4. We as developers have let this on us too easily, to eliminate stress devs must form a group and do not sign contracts which do not provide automatic day off for oncall.

I could see there potentially being problems in an at-will position where engineers aren't actually able to take those days off when they want without hurting their career.

Re: Developer on Call

#80
post #24
post #11

In some companies, there is a difference between developers (people who create new features) and L2 or L3 support (people who fix bugs and resolve problems for the customer). The trend is not to have this division, and I disagree with that. I agree that it is good to try both things, and developers should try to be support once in a while, and vice versa. However, I think they are very different mindsets and doing bo…

Not sure about this. Separating dev work like that is a risk to get architecture astronauts in low stress position with a bunch of peons suffering for their sins in the trenches. Concentration is not a good argument, bug fixing requires no less of that and is often compounded by time pressure.

Bug fixing is very different from being on-call. I don't see the correlation between getting a full night's sleep each night and being an "architecture astronaut".
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