Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Life Sentence for British Student Draws Criticism for U.A.E

wsj.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

71–80 of 86 posts

Re: Life Sentence for British Student Draws Criticism for U.A.E

#71

Post by leesec »

stupidcar wrote: post #37
leesec wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are you acting like these western democracies aren't just as barbarous and cruel?

Because they aren’t “just” as barbarous and cruel. Violations of civil liberties occur in every country, but If you really believe that the rate and intensity of such is exactly the same in the UK as it is in Saudi Arabia or UAE, then you’re monumentally deluded.

Maybe not to our own people.

Did the UK/US not invade Iraq/Afghanistan, are we not still there? How many governments have we overthrown? How many people have we unjustly imprisoned/killed?

It's not a 1 to 1 type comparison but in my mind it's hard to imagine the US wasn't the most cruel or barbarous civilization in the past 80 years or so.

Noam Chomsky: “Remember the worst terrorist campaign in the world by far is the one that’s being orchestrated in Washington. That’s the global assassination campaign. There’s never been a terrorist campaign of that scale.”

Re: Life Sentence for British Student Draws Criticism for U.A.E

#72

Post by leesec »

CosmicShadow wrote: post #5

I don't know why anyone would visit a country with such insane laws, it's just too dangerous. Sure they seem to have a lot of interesting stuff going on and to see, but a big fat NOPE after you read anything about their rules and how they treat people!

I wonder if any of the child immigrants currently locked up near the Mexican border would say the same thing now that they've tried to come to America.

Re: Life Sentence for British Student Draws Criticism for U.A.E

#73

Post by ap3 »

arsalanb wrote: post #59

How is this relevant to HN? Isn't "most political stuff" explicitly off topic? Also, most people calling out UAE to be a "dangerous" place and make misinformed should really learn more before making blanket statements. I have lived there for half of my life and also lived in the world "largest democracy" and also in the US. I feel safer in the UAE as an immigrant than I do in either of those places. For context, in I…

Sorry but there are enough incidents coming out of UAE and the arab world (KSA), where it seems easy to run afoul of the law (alcohol, drugs, sex/rape, religion) and end up in big trouble

You go after India but don’t reveal what country you hail from though.

The US is so big though that it’s impractical to make such a blanket statement.

There are mosques in every big city- no one seems to be opressed because of their religious views. You will never be judged for offending a deity or the government.

Re: Life Sentence for British Student Draws Criticism for U.A.E

#75

Post by justboxing »

frereubu wrote: post #26
CosmicShadow wrote: post #5

I don't know why anyone would visit a country with such insane laws, it's just too dangerous. Sure they seem to have a lot of interesting stuff going on and to see, but a big fat NOPE after you read anything about their rules and how they treat people!

A female friend who's a paediatrician was being courted by the Saudi government to come and start a programme there. Women's health - including pregnancy and childbirth - was dreadful because all doctors were male but they weren't allowed to touch or even view women's naked bodies. Breast cancer survival rates were horrific too, and probably still are - this was only a few years ago. The idea was to move there with h…

> when she discovered that any time she wanted to leave the country she'd have to have a letter signed by him giving his permission

Does this clause apply to visitors / non-native citizens / non-muslims also? I thought it only applied to native saudi's from that Saud[1] dude's bloodline.

Not trolling, really don't know.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Saud

Re: Life Sentence for British Student Draws Criticism for U.A.E

#76

Post by Kiro »

jliptzin wrote: post #30
twelvechairs wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> for what we consider minor infractions? International spying in this case? I'm not sure thats a minor infraction

Not this specific case but I have read numerous times about small time things that result in decades in prison or worse in these backwards countries, a sibling has provided an example. In this case I still don’t see what warrants a life sentence.

Dubai is the fourth most popular city to visit in the world after London, Paris and Bangkok. Again, you're completely exaggerating when you say these things happen all the time. In Sweden it's a very common tourist destination and I've never heard anyone that have had problems with law enforcement or anything else. I also know Swedish people who have lived and worked there for extended period of times.

Re: Life Sentence for British Student Draws Criticism for U.A.E

#78

Post by claudiawerner »

stupidcar wrote: post #37
leesec wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are you acting like these western democracies aren't just as barbarous and cruel?

Because they aren’t “just” as barbarous and cruel. Violations of civil liberties occur in every country, but If you really believe that the rate and intensity of such is exactly the same in the UK as it is in Saudi Arabia or UAE, then you’re monumentally deluded.

On the intensity you certainly have a point, but on rate, I was recently surprised to see that between 2016 and 2017 there were 970 recorded offenses in England and Wales relating to a 2009 law criminalizing production or possession of a category of Japanese hentai manga. Agree with the law or not, that's a huge number, especially for a topic which is, to the say the least, vigorously debated. For comparison, a similar law in the U.S. was stricken down as unconstitutional (to my knowledge) in Ashcroft v. Free Speech Alliance.

Re: Life Sentence for British Student Draws Criticism for U.A.E

#79

Post by seanmcdirmid »

robotrout wrote: post #64
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They did for a long time.

Yep. It was easy for us to topple Libya, and we almost succeeded with Syria as well, if Russia hadn't stepped in. A secular government is easy to stir up the fundamentalists against, to use them as foot soldiers in your regime change operation. They won't have as much luck with Iran, since it's government is so strongly aligned with the fundamentalists, the pool of willing cannon fodder will be smaller. I hope, at so…

Lybia and Syria had their own rebellions to deal with. Without a popular uprising, it’s very doubtful that the USA would intervene at all like they did before in Iraq and Afghanistan. Say what you will, but the people of a country should have a right to change its government.

Also, when chaos is set into motion, the west has to decide if the costs of not getting involved are greater than getting involved. Often doing nothing isn’t viable either.

Re: Life Sentence for British Student Draws Criticism for U.A.E

#80

Post by sytelus »

CosmicShadow wrote: post #5

I don't know why anyone would visit a country with such insane laws, it's just too dangerous. Sure they seem to have a lot of interesting stuff going on and to see, but a big fat NOPE after you read anything about their rules and how they treat people!

I'd been to UAE and it is surprisingly lax country. In fact, if you ever want to experience culture of a country with Islam as state religion with all Western amenities, your safest bet might be UAE. They really really value their tourism and foreign investment business. Consequently they will look away most things that are outright violation of laws by foreigners. For example, their law bans sleeve less dress for women in public places but you will find Western women roaming around with it and even low shorts all over. Seeing them walking along side burka clad local women is quite a contrast. I even spotted bunch of Western women in bikini on their famous public beach while local women swimming in ocean with their burka on! No one seem to care. Few things they won't absolutely tolerate, however, is possession of drugs, public consumption of alcohol and anything against their royal family.

In current case, it seems journalists are keeping most details under the wraps. Only thing I can get is that the guy was doing some kind of study on security changes that occurred after Arab spring. He should have known that the topic of rebellion would be big hot potato in any monarchy and the country-wide security study adds lot of fire on the top. The right way to do this would be take permission from the local government, inform them things you will be collecting and make sure embassy works with you on this. There is no information on whether this happened.

Finally, why should any one visit such countries? World is not perfect but is wonderful. Human rights and individual freedom are relatively new things and just 300 years ago doing some study like this even in Western country would have same predicament. It is still important to experience and understand different cultures, points of views and communicate yours to others. That is the essence of travelling the world.

Post reply on HN