Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

NYC subway and bus services have entered 'death spiral', experts say

theguardian.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

71–80 of 477 posts

Re: NYC subway and bus services have entered 'death spiral', experts say

#71

Post by yholio »

chadlavi wrote: post #63
exabrial wrote: post #55

> Drastically cut service or increase fares There's another option: disband the MTA Union, the primary driver of operations costs. They have blocked technology and safety upgrades for decades to keep 'those darn computers and robots from taking jobs from poor workers just trying to make a living'.

Paying conductors a living wage isn't nearly as expensive to the agency (and the state, and we the taxpayers and riders) as mismanaged and corruptly nepotistic multi-billion dollar contracts for construction.

On the other hand, paying living wages to thousands of unnecessary workers is quite expensive, regardless if they are employees or contractors.

Unions work on both goals simultaneously, increasing wages but also providing job security to their base, inserting strong restrictions on who can perform certain labors etc. The more employees, the higher the power of the union, it's not like a competitor could spring up and kill their host.

It's not a white/black issue, laborers need protection but should not use a privileged position in the economy to seek a rent at the expense of everybody else.

Re: NYC subway and bus services have entered 'death spiral', experts say

#72

Post by dgzl »

nakedrobot2 wrote: post #33
WAthrowaway wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are already doing this for several lines. The L wasn't running on weekends at all in November for them to do repairs. NYC is unique in that there are LOTS of people whose working hours fall into that range and they rely on the subway. Just shutting down the whole system is unfeasible.

Please stop this unique snowflake claim about NYC :+) It's another huge City. Besides having a horribly mismanaged public transport, it's not unique. Except that it's, you know, the center of the universe of course. ;-)

You're sadly mistaken if you think a New York, one of the largest and busiest cities in human existence, is "just another large City", and that the solution to their transportation woes is to just lock it down and work on it.

Re: NYC subway and bus services have entered 'death spiral', experts say

#74

Post by chadlavi »

yholio wrote: post #71
chadlavi wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Paying conductors a living wage isn't nearly as expensive to the agency (and the state, and we the taxpayers and riders) as mismanaged and corruptly nepotistic multi-billion dollar contracts for construction.

On the other hand, paying living wages to thousands of unnecessary workers is quite expensive, regardless if they are employees or contractors. Unions work on both goals simultaneously, increasing wages but also providing job security to their base, inserting strong restrictions on who can perform certain labors etc. The more employees, the higher the power of the union, it's not like a competitor could spring up and…

This is an agency that still uses fabric-wrapped wire and vacuum tubes. Those people are far from unnecessary.

Though I'm sure the MTA will pay billions more in contracts over the next few years to halfway automate a few small parts of their jobs.

Re: NYC subway and bus services have entered 'death spiral', experts say

#75

Post by mlrtime »

codyb wrote: post #38
nakedrobot2 wrote: post #21

CLOSE THE SUBWAY MIDNIGHT-5AM and fix it Like most other civilized societies who have a functioning and well-maintained metro system. That is really all there is to it!

That really hurts most a lot of poor people who work odd hours. Then suddenly they have to find a way home or two work that will be much more expensive and eat into their earnings. I'm not sure what the solution is, but "that's really all there is to it" will affect very negatively hundreds of thousands of people in NYC.

Night buses like London, they are much more efficient when there is less traffic.

Re: NYC subway and bus services have entered 'death spiral', experts say

#77

Post by jseliger »

rhcom2 wrote: post #67

The NYT had a great article on how the subway got in the situation it is in. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/18/nyregion/new-york-subway-...

When even the NYT is willing to implicitly criticize unions, you know it's gotten bad:

Even in the face of the financial crisis and budget shortfalls, the M.T.A. has given concession after concession to its main labor union.

Members of the Transport Workers Union got a total of 19 percent in pay raises between 2009 and 2016, compared with 12 percent for the city’s teachers union over the same period.

The labor contracts also gave members lifetime spousal health benefits and free rides on the Metro-North and the Long Island Rail Road. (They already were allowed to ride the subway for free.)

Particularly insane:

Subway workers, including managers and administrative personnel, now make an average of about $155,000 annually in salary, overtime and benefits, according to a Times analysis of data compiled by the federal Department of Transportation. That is far more than in any other American transit system; the average in cities like Boston, Chicago, Los Angeles and Washington is less than $100,000 in total compensation annually.

Re: NYC subway and bus services have entered 'death spiral', experts say

#78

Post by lozaning »

syntaxing wrote: post #26

Not surprised. Not only are we lacking in physical infrastructure, but also technological infrastructure. I still don't understand how we do not have stations like in developed Asian countries like Japan or Hong Kong. The trains are "one" unit and the stations are doubled door with people at each station assisting (or ticketing..) you if needed. The train practically drive themselves. The conductor is there for emerg…

Hong Kong and Nanjing subway systems are spectacular. I dont speak or read the language and never once did I get lost because there are super easy to understand signs _everywhere_ and usually an electronic map that indicates the station you just left and the one you're going to, above all the doors to the cars inside. Never once gotten lost, embarrassed i can't say the same for BART.

Re: NYC subway and bus services have entered 'death spiral', experts say

#80

Post by rmason »

I think what everyone reading this story is missing and that the opportunity.

Betting someone clever on HN could invent a new signalling system for far less than $40 billion, perhaps $4 billion.

Once it's proven in New York you could roll it out anywhere in the world.

Post reply on HN