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Why I’m Giving $1.8B for College Financial Aid

nytimes.com

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Re: Why I’m Giving $1.8B for College Financial Aid

#71

Post by born_a_beetle »

bytematic wrote: post #68
born_a_beetle wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. Good behavior starts at the top. When all the best universities go need-blind and start offering only need-based scholarships, the bad actors in the education system will be left out on their own and we can start dealing with them separately.

The money will go to a school which likely could not possibly go bankrupt based on their current endowment. It could be much better spent across hundreds of state schools who do not have the same liberty or vaults.

Public schools shouldn't be dependent on the whims of philanthropic billionaires. They should be supported by the state. It goes against everything they were set up as.

Re: Why I’m Giving $1.8B for College Financial Aid

#72

Post by wernercd »

schimmy_changa wrote: post #66
akulbe wrote: post #63

I realize I'm likely going to be a dissenting opinion here… but I'm not sure this is a good investment. Unless you're going to enter a field that requires the pedigree that starts with college (i.e. medicine, law, engineering), it's arguable that college isn't even worth the tuition you pay for it. Like another commenter says, they have no incentive to do anything that will reduce costs. The quality of the education…

That may be true (but is arguable) if you see college as nothing but a vocational school, training you to be the best worker which society could ask for. A truly liberal (in the John Stuart Mill / Enlightenment sense of the word) education gives you the tools you need to engage with the world. How can you ever change society if you are only able to see the world in what makes money, and are never given the time and r…

> A truly liberal (in the John Stuart Mill / Enlightenment sense of the word) education gives you the tools you need to engage with the world.

But the current education system doesn't give you either.

You don't get tools to be useful - IE STEM related, engineering, math, etc.

You also don't get the tools to "engage" with the world. Blocking traffic, needing safe places and being triggered by anything you disagree with isn't "engaging" the world.

Re: Why I’m Giving $1.8B for College Financial Aid

#73

Post by whymauri »

bytematic wrote: post #67
akulbe wrote: post #63

I realize I'm likely going to be a dissenting opinion here… but I'm not sure this is a good investment. Unless you're going to enter a field that requires the pedigree that starts with college (i.e. medicine, law, engineering), it's arguable that college isn't even worth the tuition you pay for it. Like another commenter says, they have no incentive to do anything that will reduce costs. The quality of the education…

re: quality declining Source? I don't see this at all. re: sjws This is just a vocal minority demonized by certain political groups to stir up anger. Sad to see it's convincing people.

The moment someone unironically uses "social justice warrior" either to refer to themselves or an opposing group I can't take them seriously.

Re: Why I’m Giving $1.8B for College Financial Aid

#74

Post by Fomite »

mcny wrote: post #42

I think the real answer is: 1. Higher income tax across the board 2. Decreased wages for college and University staff. Fewer executive and bureaucratic positions. Just at one CUNY college there are about one hundred positions at or above the level of a department chair. It has fewer than 17k students enrolled. 3. Eliminate all competitive sports across all schools and colleges. This is just noise that nobody needs. 4…

A bigger factor than pretty much all of this, for state universities, has been that state support for universities has dropped through the floor.

Washington State, for example, got state support cut by 50% during the 2008 recession. It's never come back.

This also has an impact on one of HN's other favorite higher ed topics, the state of quality research. With state support cut, the two available levers are tuition and more federal research money. With the latter, the pool of money is - at best - stagnant, and there's increasing pressure to get grants, which means more people cutting corners.

Re: Why I’m Giving $1.8B for College Financial Aid

#75

Post by zanny »

wernercd wrote: post #72
schimmy_changa wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That may be true (but is arguable) if you see college as nothing but a vocational school, training you to be the best worker which society could ask for. A truly liberal (in the John Stuart Mill / Enlightenment sense of the word) education gives you the tools you need to engage with the world. How can you ever change society if you are only able to see the world in what makes money, and are never given the time and r…

> A truly liberal (in the John Stuart Mill / Enlightenment sense of the word) education gives you the tools you need to engage with the world. But the current education system doesn't give you either. You don't get tools to be useful - IE STEM related, engineering, math, etc. You also don't get the tools to "engage" with the world. Blocking traffic, needing safe places and being triggered by anything you disagree wit…

At that you absolutely don't need a special expensive institution to teach you how to behave. A century ago it might have made sense - formal conduct was rigid and failure to adhere could displace you out of aristocracy. You needed to know your proper dinner routines and manners perfectly. You needed to know the retinue of history and contemporary science topics popular in the era to not be left looking ignorant of a conversation.

Of course that later circumstance was only applicable in an era when major scientific advancements were slow and costly to disseminate. Thats why it required the infrastructure of a university to supply it. I feel like that might not be quite as much of a barrier today, and nobody is expected to stay current on all news - there is simply too much, too fast, even of the purely scholarly variety.

While I don't think your average 18 year old is of "mature" character or often fit to participate in normative adult culture it also isn't a danger to them to have to learn how in the moment. The worst that happens is they lose a job or two and rebound - it isn't a lifelong disgrace in an insular society anymore.

Re: Why I’m Giving $1.8B for College Financial Aid

#76

Post by intralizee »

born_a_beetle wrote: post #70
intralizee wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see that as making this a very fair system. Many of my colleagues had parents refuse to pay a dime. I know they were hurt by it and some actually had to wait until they were of age to be an independent.

Private schools cost money. Somebody has to pay and it isn't the state. If your parents don't want to pay for a private education, then take it up with them. It's fair from Harvard's perspective and the perspective of the general population.

I wasn't aware of the voting that took place to find out what the perspective of the general population thinks. The university I went to was public and the age for being an independent was for federal student aid. Seems like it doesn't matter if something isn't fair.

Re: Why I’m Giving $1.8B for College Financial Aid

#77

Post by lotsofpulp »

chiefalchemist wrote: post #35
sjg007 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We should really improve K-12 education. The fact that kids are not qualified for college after 18 years in public school is a travesty.

It's not that they're not qualified. They're just not college material __and__ there's not enough mid / highend jobs for them. At the same time, the trades are hurting for good people. But the entitled are too good to be fully employed. They'd rather taken on debt. Given where AI is headed the higher edu route is not going to improve. Yet BHO, who knows better, kept beating the "higher edu for all" drum.

They're not entitled, they’re just not being compensated enough to do labor which has quite a bit of negative effects on your health and quality of life compared to office jobs.

Once you see people opting for the trades, then you will know they are getting proper compensation.

Re: Why I’m Giving $1.8B for College Financial Aid

#78

Post by bko »

whymauri wrote: post #73
bytematic wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

re: quality declining Source? I don't see this at all. re: sjws This is just a vocal minority demonized by certain political groups to stir up anger. Sad to see it's convincing people.

The moment someone unironically uses "social justice warrior" either to refer to themselves or an opposing group I can't take them seriously.

Why?

Re: Why I’m Giving $1.8B for College Financial Aid

#79

Post by nickthemagicman »

wernercd wrote: post #72
schimmy_changa wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That may be true (but is arguable) if you see college as nothing but a vocational school, training you to be the best worker which society could ask for. A truly liberal (in the John Stuart Mill / Enlightenment sense of the word) education gives you the tools you need to engage with the world. How can you ever change society if you are only able to see the world in what makes money, and are never given the time and r…

> A truly liberal (in the John Stuart Mill / Enlightenment sense of the word) education gives you the tools you need to engage with the world. But the current education system doesn't give you either. You don't get tools to be useful - IE STEM related, engineering, math, etc. You also don't get the tools to "engage" with the world. Blocking traffic, needing safe places and being triggered by anything you disagree wit…

Your view of college seems to be very media influenced. Just like 99.9% of Arabic people aren't terrorists, 99.9% of college students aren't 'safe space triggered social justice warriors'. Maybe you should grab a statistics class at a nearby college. ;).

The media has really painted college students in a bad light. There's such a wide variety of students and personalities. It's a great place to share ideas and form networks.

Re: Why I’m Giving $1.8B for College Financial Aid

#80

Post by nickthemagicman »

bko wrote: post #78
whymauri wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The moment someone unironically uses "social justice warrior" either to refer to themselves or an opposing group I can't take them seriously.

Why?

It's a red flag that they're highly susceptible to social and news media propaganda and are bad at statistics.
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