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China's brightest children are being recruited to weaponize AI

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Re: China's brightest children are being recruited to weaponize AI

#71
post #59

China is full of extremely bright, hardworking people. It is not a nation of brain-washed automatons. I think AI alignment is some of the most important work in the world, and I think spreading and translating AI alignment research in China, such as Stuart Russell's work, may well be more important than direct AI-safety research. Because of their huge population and much higher average quantitative ability among Han…

It doesn't matter what the Chinese people are like, it matters what the Chinese government is like. If AI comes out of China the Chinese government will have complete control over it, and that is a very bad thing.

Re: China's brightest children are being recruited to weaponize AI

#72
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

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The solution isn't a ban, it's requiring they become US citizens after they get their degree. Right now we educate them and send them right back. Meanwhile we let in 50,000+ uneducated illegal immigrants a month. It's moronic to allow top tier talent to go back to China rather than keeping them here to benefit the US

> The solution isn't a ban, it's requiring they become US citizens after they get their degree...It's moronic to allow top tier talent to go back to China rather than keeping them here to benefit the US

Kind of like indentured servitude, right?

They also (presumably) pay full price for their education so "we" aren't educating them, they are educating themselves.

Re: China's brightest children are being recruited to weaponize AI

#73
post #70
post #19

China has cultivated in its people a very troubling mental complex centered on national pride and driven by the Century of Humiliation. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Century_of_humiliation To say they are fervent about righting the wrongs and perceived wrongs of the past is an understatement. It's pretty much a driving force of life with many people. It's a powerful dynamic. And it's one that's held close to the ches…

lol exaggeration much? Psychoanalyzing other people, especially a whole country, without communicating with them is a sign of close-mindedness that I thought rational discourses on HN would preclude. There are hundreds of thousands of Chinese students in the US whose view on nationalism differs from individual to individual. Not only is the characterization of a purported hidden motif not warranted, it is reminiscent…

>But Chinese foreign policy is only assertive only in its immediate periphery.

This is a good point which seems to hold for now, at least with regard to exertion of military force. It’s mostly defensive although there is disagreement about the boundaries of what is to be defended.

Longer term though there are concerning matters like the extension of predatory loans to African governments in exchange for mineral and other development rights. Ironically similar to some of the abuses China suffered in its past.

Re: China's brightest children are being recruited to weaponize AI

#74
post #19

China has cultivated in its people a very troubling mental complex centered on national pride and driven by the Century of Humiliation. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Century_of_humiliation To say they are fervent about righting the wrongs and perceived wrongs of the past is an understatement. It's pretty much a driving force of life with many people. It's a powerful dynamic. And it's one that's held close to the ches…

The Chinese Government is suppressing free speech regarding Tibet, Taiwan, Uyghurs, corruption, forced displacement and plenty of other socially relevant topics. And just as it takes two to tango it takes two to suppress free speech. One party to suppress (in this case literally as there is just one) and another to effectively obey - that's the Chinese society pretty much in its entirety. That means Chinese society is effectively brought into line.

So from that perspective I don't understand why 'natch' is receiving so much protest here. Totalitarian regimes are as easy to predict as a linear function and the Chinese "government" is totalitarian. The goal is to maximize power by all means necessary and - to err on the side of caution - also all means available and obtainable.

Humanitarian concerns exclusively play a role in governments and societies where at least some level of democratic processes and transparency can be carried out.

The bottom line is - expect the worst.

Re: China's brightest children are being recruited to weaponize AI

#75
post #71
post #59

China is full of extremely bright, hardworking people. It is not a nation of brain-washed automatons. I think AI alignment is some of the most important work in the world, and I think spreading and translating AI alignment research in China, such as Stuart Russell's work, may well be more important than direct AI-safety research. Because of their huge population and much higher average quantitative ability among Han…

It doesn't matter what the Chinese people are like, it matters what the Chinese government is like. If AI comes out of China the Chinese government will have complete control over it, and that is a very bad thing.

> it matters what the Chinese government is like

that is just a cheap excuse repeatedly used in almost all high tech areas -

1. because the Chinese government is bad, China is not allowed to join projects like the international space station.

2. because the Chinese government is bad, allowing China to have access to any semiconductor techs from the west is not acceptable.

3. because the Chinese government is bad, exporting nuclear power station tech to China is now banned.

4. because the Chinese government is bad, Huawei's phones are banned, ZTE was not allowed to buy any US made parts.

5. because the Chinese government is bad, Alipay's acquisition of MoneyGram was banned.

6. because the Chinese government is bad, Chinese universities working on China's weapon programs are banned from buying DELL desktop computers.

when US banned exporting any high tech product to China, what to do when there is a trade imbalance? get Trump into the whitehouse, cry hard for the unfairness in trade!

give me a break, please come back with some better excuses.

Re: China's brightest children are being recruited to weaponize AI

#76
post #75
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't matter what the Chinese people are like, it matters what the Chinese government is like. If AI comes out of China the Chinese government will have complete control over it, and that is a very bad thing.

> it matters what the Chinese government is like that is just a cheap excuse repeatedly used in almost all high tech areas - 1. because the Chinese government is bad, China is not allowed to join projects like the international space station. 2. because the Chinese government is bad, allowing China to have access to any semiconductor techs from the west is not acceptable. 3. because the Chinese government is bad, exp…

I'm not sure what your contention is. Do you not believe the Chinese government to be corrupt, authoritarian, and/or oppressive?

I'm pretty comfortable with the idea that free societies should not economically support oppressive ones.

Re: China's brightest children are being recruited to weaponize AI

#77
post #26
post #19

China has cultivated in its people a very troubling mental complex centered on national pride and driven by the Century of Humiliation. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Century_of_humiliation To say they are fervent about righting the wrongs and perceived wrongs of the past is an understatement. It's pretty much a driving force of life with many people. It's a powerful dynamic. And it's one that's held close to the ches…

There must be actual Chinese people here on HN. Can any weigh in on the reality of this? It’s a heavy charge to make against an entire population.

I am a Chinese citizen and all my education was in China, from kindergarten to grad school.

> China has cultivated in its people a very troubling mental complex centered on national pride and driven by the Century of Humiliation.

I’d say this is correct to a small extent — the history lessons in particular, took that stance when it’s covering contents about Chinese history from late Qing dynasty to the end of WW2. But the education also renders China as a peaceful nation, and the rise of China would benefit the entire world, which majority of the Chinese population agrees.

> To say they are fervent about righting the wrongs and perceived wrongs of the past is an understatement

It would be a correct statement if “righting the wrong” simply means “making China a great country again” so that “centuries of humiliation would never happen again”. Yes majority of Chinese citizens do have national pride, not unlike people any other country I’ve seen. Except maybe some extreme nationalists, most Chinese citizens would love to see China becoming stronger peacefully and be helpful to under-developed parts of the world.

> But I think our more diverse (talking about points of view, not race here) and more activist anti-racism voices are a tempering force that China lacks.

There are very little discussion about racism in China compared to US, simply because it’s less relevant. - Most Chinese don’t ever interact with a different race. But diversity in oppinions in other topics are very common. I’d say it’s virtually impossible to keep a billion citizens on the same page.

Just as an example, at the core of China’s “nationalism education” (don’t know what should I call it) is the anti-Japanese war which was part of WW2. Like South Korea, plenty of Chinese hate Japan for not acknowledging the war crimes they’ve done and trying to erase those facts from their history books. There had been several movement to boycott Japanese products in the past two decades. At the same time, Japanese culture actually have a huge influence in China, especially among young people. Japan is also one of the most popular foreign destinations Chinese people would love to travel to.

Re: China's brightest children are being recruited to weaponize AI

#78
post #19

China has cultivated in its people a very troubling mental complex centered on national pride and driven by the Century of Humiliation. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Century_of_humiliation To say they are fervent about righting the wrongs and perceived wrongs of the past is an understatement. It's pretty much a driving force of life with many people. It's a powerful dynamic. And it's one that's held close to the ches…

They're right, though.

If China were staying 'beneath' the west, like they're 'supposed to', we wouldn't have scare articles every week in the economist and the NYT, and we wouldn't have this comment at the top of the thread.

You're demonizing them as scary others and proving the point of hardliners there.

Re: China's brightest children are being recruited to weaponize AI

#79
post #59

China is full of extremely bright, hardworking people. It is not a nation of brain-washed automatons. I think AI alignment is some of the most important work in the world, and I think spreading and translating AI alignment research in China, such as Stuart Russell's work, may well be more important than direct AI-safety research. Because of their huge population and much higher average quantitative ability among Han…

[flagged]

Re: China's brightest children are being recruited to weaponize AI

#80
post #74
post #19

China has cultivated in its people a very troubling mental complex centered on national pride and driven by the Century of Humiliation. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Century_of_humiliation To say they are fervent about righting the wrongs and perceived wrongs of the past is an understatement. It's pretty much a driving force of life with many people. It's a powerful dynamic. And it's one that's held close to the ches…

The Chinese Government is suppressing free speech regarding Tibet, Taiwan, Uyghurs, corruption, forced displacement and plenty of other socially relevant topics. And just as it takes two to tango it takes two to suppress free speech. One party to suppress (in this case literally as there is just one) and another to effectively obey - that's the Chinese society pretty much in its entirety. That means Chinese society i…

It's not Chinese people aren't aware of what the Chinese government is/has been doing. This is why natch's comments have received so many negative feedbacks. natch doesn't give any evidences to support his arguments. Instead, he just bluntly said that 'Slaughterbots would excite them' as if he has seen it in person. This is an insult on the intelligence and moral standard of Chinese student or common man.

I know what the Chinese government has been doing and I was born and raised in China. However, that doesn't make me the immoral, senseless and vengeful entity he is trying to portray in his comment.

I know it's easy to generalize a certain group of people with whatever you hear from the news or read on the Internet, especially if you've not had too much meaningful interactions with individuals from that group. So I don't blame him, as I was somewhat similar before I came to the US and get to know the US people.

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