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The Dangerous Fetishization of ‘Hustle Porn’

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Re: The Dangerous Fetishization of ‘Hustle Porn’

#71

Post by rukittenme »

SOLAR_FIELDS wrote: post #67

The discussion around the content of the article here is interesting, but the thing that stuck out to me the most was this quote: “No amount of grifting or endless working” will help alleviate the gender pay gap, which, according to the World Economic Forum, won’t close for another 200 years I read on here all the time that the “gender pay gap” doesn’t exist. So which one is it?

If you find yourself questioning reality after every opinion you read you should really form your own opinion. Take the time to read the arguments present by both sides.

Re: The Dangerous Fetishization of ‘Hustle Porn’

#72

Post by travisjungroth »

FooHentai wrote: post #58
exogeny wrote: post #10

There's nothing wrong with hard work. But there is a lot wrong with the idea that you need to work until your health is impacted to succeed; if you need to work that hard, something else is off - the idea isn't good enough, you're attacking it in the wrong way, whatever. To me this ties into the gross, pervasive trend of wantrepreneurism. Shark Tank, Zuck, Elon Musk - being a founder has never been sexier, never been…

It's a pretty pure example of Cargo Cult. If I shakalaka the 'hard work' stick hard enough , rainfall/supply planes/success will surely come. It didn't rain? Must not have shaken the stick hard enough.

“Cargo cult” gets thrown a around a lot, and I enjoy comments like yours that bring it back to its roots.

Re: The Dangerous Fetishization of ‘Hustle Porn’

#73

Post by jldugger »

SOLAR_FIELDS wrote: post #67

The discussion around the content of the article here is interesting, but the thing that stuck out to me the most was this quote: “No amount of grifting or endless working” will help alleviate the gender pay gap, which, according to the World Economic Forum, won’t close for another 200 years I read on here all the time that the “gender pay gap” doesn’t exist. So which one is it?

I see it as there being two kinds of gender pay gaps. The first one is the gap between comparable men and women in the same job at the same employer. You might call this gender bias, since the only discriminate factor here is gender. This is generally a small gap, though this is not true for all job titles. And it's pretty rare to find the gap disfavor men, so we should probably investigate why this emerges.

The second one is the wide chasm between what men make on average and what women make. If you find it confusing why these two are different, consider nurses vs doctors. These two jobs vary by pay and gender balance, and for this combined population women make less money on average. This is something we probably want to be concerned about as a society, but likely cannot solve it with enforcement of existing laws as it has myriad factors like degree selection, gender role norms, employer selection, time in workforce, labor participation by age, overtime availability, and everything in the first category. I call this systemic bias, because there's not one bad actor we need to punish here. Rather, it emerges as the a rational equilibrium, in response to societal level pressures -- not all of which are rational themselves. This is the sphere where we cross our fingers that maybe Computer Engineer Barbie will adjust things a percentage point while we search for the hundred other, much harder things we need to do to unbias society.

So, re: "grifting or endless working." Not a prescription for solving systemic gender bias. Getting up early for your teaching job or working more hours as a nurse won't solve the fact that you're not an engineer or surgeon. A few dozen more women in VC funded executive positions won't move the needle either.

But in general, you should probably take what folks on HN say with a grain of salt.

Re: The Dangerous Fetishization of ‘Hustle Porn’

#74

Post by lxmorj »

exogeny wrote: post #10

There's nothing wrong with hard work. But there is a lot wrong with the idea that you need to work until your health is impacted to succeed; if you need to work that hard, something else is off - the idea isn't good enough, you're attacking it in the wrong way, whatever. To me this ties into the gross, pervasive trend of wantrepreneurism. Shark Tank, Zuck, Elon Musk - being a founder has never been sexier, never been…

GaryV was a major investor in FaithBox, a company that knowingly incurred huge bills with my company that they'd knew be unable to pay (I run a 3PL). The switched to another warehouse for two months and did the same to them, then they "sold" to a firm in Omaha in a supposedly $0 asset-for-debt sale, and the buyers are trying to get out of paying me ~$60k. My lawyers are on it and I expect to get something out of them eventually, but I was lucky my business was far enough along to survive the hit.

The guy who ran the company into the ground through gross mismanagement was one of the speakers at SubSummit this year.

Such 'hustle'...

Re: The Dangerous Fetishization of ‘Hustle Porn’

#75

Post by DoofusOfDeath »

kirse wrote: post #64

Ecclesiastes 4:6 - "Better one handful with tranquillity than two handfuls with toil and (anxious) chasing after the wind." In fact, just read the whole book of Ecclesiastes if you want some sobering realities on the nature of the hustle, the grind, the striving for material things: https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ecclesiastes+2&...

Man, talk about a timeless book. Thanks for the reminder.

Re: The Dangerous Fetishization of ‘Hustle Porn’

#76

Post by opportune »

itronitron wrote: post #62
honkycat wrote: post #27

Agree with this 100%. Hustle porn is toxic and and the ethos needs to be avoided. It is clear why people latch onto the narrative. Working insane hours is a way to conceal incompetence. When your boss or employees come knocking and sees the complete waste you have made of your task, you can point at your complete lack of social life and how much you have martyred yourself for your company as proof of your competence.…

this may be the first HN comment that increases in sarcasm exponentially with each paragraph.

I hustle so hard that I don't even need to hustle

Re: The Dangerous Fetishization of ‘Hustle Porn’

#77

Post by analogmemory »

honkycat wrote: post #27

Agree with this 100%. Hustle porn is toxic and and the ethos needs to be avoided. It is clear why people latch onto the narrative. Working insane hours is a way to conceal incompetence. When your boss or employees come knocking and sees the complete waste you have made of your task, you can point at your complete lack of social life and how much you have martyred yourself for your company as proof of your competence.…

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic

Re: The Dangerous Fetishization of ‘Hustle Porn’

#78

Post by slimshady94 »

honkycat wrote: post #27

Agree with this 100%. Hustle porn is toxic and and the ethos needs to be avoided. It is clear why people latch onto the narrative. Working insane hours is a way to conceal incompetence. When your boss or employees come knocking and sees the complete waste you have made of your task, you can point at your complete lack of social life and how much you have martyred yourself for your company as proof of your competence.…

Don't you harbour dreams of having a startup and working with your own agency? Or pursuing a hobby like music or adventure sports seriously? You seem capable enough to do that well, why are you living life like a robot? Leave your job and travel the world with your girlfriend! I could even say you're wasting your productive potential - you could change the world instead of living this happy temporary life. /s

Re: The Dangerous Fetishization of ‘Hustle Porn’

#79

Post by ardy42 »

> The guy hoping to help me pick myself up by my bootstraps is Gary Vaynerchuk, an entrepreneur known for investing in tech companies like Facebook, Twitter and Venmo and amassing a $50 million fortune in the process. But it’s unlikely that you know him as a successful businessman. More likely, you’ll recognize him being plastered all over your social media feeds as an “inspirational speaker” and internet personality who gives lectures on how to hack your life in such a way that you become “more productive” and “more successful.”

A VC lecturing everyone to work their asses off reminds me of this:

www.jwz.org/blog/2011/11/watch-a-vc-use-my-name-to-sell-a-con/ (not direct-linked due to a referrer-prank):

> Michael Arrington posted this article, "Startups Are Hard. So Work More, Cry Less, And Quit All The Whining" which quotes extensively from my 1994 diary. He's trying to make the point that the only path to success in the software industry is to work insane hours, sleep under your desk, and give up your one and only youth, and if you don't do that, you're a pussy. He's using my words to try and back up that thesis.

> I hate this, because it's not true, and it's disingenuous.

> What is true is that for a VC's business model to work, it's necessary for you to give up your life in order for him to become richer.

> Follow the fucking money. When a VC tells you what's good for you, check your wallet, then count your fingers.

Re: The Dangerous Fetishization of ‘Hustle Porn’

#80

Post by fwip »

kryogen1c wrote: post #57
yesenadam wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, not 'simply' for being honest, but for being (entertainingly) rude about it. You can be honest without being brutally honest, but it doesn't make such good TV I guess.

That depends on if you think people are naturally rational and without bias. In reality, people often have to be forcibly dethroned from their views. Having a judge say no thanks will not have the appropriate effect. The issue is emotional commitment, not accurate assessment.

You know that they intentionally put through and hyped up the worst singers, right? Like some kid who showed up for the first round on a lark was told "congrats you're great!! You're coming back for the next round when the judges are here," did the whole profiling/backstory thing like they'd do if you were a good singer, and intentionally set you up to fail in the worst way. Just so Simon can make a joke at your expense.
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