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Ford Buying San Francisco-Area E-Scooter Startup Spin

nytimes.com

71–80 of 328 posts

Re: Ford Buying San Francisco-Area E-Scooter Startup Spin

#71

There I was, sitting at the busy intersection of Sacramento and Ashby in Berkeley, when I saw two boys that couldn't have been more than 8-10 years old fly by on Bird Scooters. And I thought to myself, some kid is going to die. And lots of people do die on these things: https://www.google.com/search?q=bird+scooters+deaths These scooter companies suck, I wish they'd all go away. If they weren't all going for hypergrow…

counterpoint: https://www.google.com/search?q=motor+vehicle+deaths

Re: Ford Buying San Francisco-Area E-Scooter Startup Spin

#72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was clearly satire, but the idea is that only a certain subset of people are active enough to ride a bike. If e-scooters take off, that's a new/larger group of people traveling at 15mph. Infrastructure that was marginal for the small cohort of bicyclists will become obviously inadequate as people riding e-scooters, e-bikes, motor skateboards, etc. join them. As a bicyclist who wants more and safer bike lanes, I…

That's why it's aggravating to me how many cities insist on building everything at ground level. Cars? Ground level. Bikes and pedestrians? Ground level. Trains? Ground level, creating chaos at intersections. And now we have tons of scooters. Ground level, and causing chaos as people ride them without helmets and weave into car traffic. Adding more ground level transit isn't ever going to be the solution, and widenin…

Many northern (and some southern) cities have a skyway system which connects pedestrians on the second floor. Out of the weather, comfortable temperature year round. Let the cars have the icy slippery roads at ground level, no need for a sidewalk near the street. Once you leave your car head to second floor and go where you want to be. The second floor rents are the highest because that is where people are.

Building tunnels is expensive. Building bridges for cars is expensive, but a bridge that only needs to handle humans is much cheaper a 500kg fatso is much lighter than a 500kg fatso in a 4000kg SUV.

Re: Ford Buying San Francisco-Area E-Scooter Startup Spin

#73

I used Bird, Lime, Lyft, and Jump scooters over the weekend in LA and they were great for getting around when I'd have otherwise considered driving (over a 45 minute walk). I tried a Skip scooter again when I got back to SF, and once again, it simply could not handle a minor (for SF) hill. I don't know what the solution is, since it seems like a bad idea to power them more to handle hills given the dangers that would…

The Jump bikes do great on hills.

Re: Ford Buying San Francisco-Area E-Scooter Startup Spin

#74

What you're seeing is car companies trying to transition to "mobility" companies -- the difference being the former is a manufacturing company with 3% margins and the latter being a services company with much fatter margins. Autonomous car fleets are the main "mobility services" prize of course -- all the major OEMs have autonomous research labs -- but you're seeing more interest in scooters and bikes (there was a he…

No, I don't think this is a transition. What we're likely seeing is M&A people caught up in the hype and trends. In some ways, it's worth spending some amount as a hedge against something happening, but I don't believe these scooters will represent any meaningful change ... personally I think they are kind of a fad. The logistics, cost, narrow use cases of all of it just don't work out well enough. Truly - what % of…

I agree. Besides taking an Uber approach to sidewalk limitations, I don't really see any use case for this that a moped or bike doesn't do better.

Re: Ford Buying San Francisco-Area E-Scooter Startup Spin

#75

There I was, sitting at the busy intersection of Sacramento and Ashby in Berkeley, when I saw two boys that couldn't have been more than 8-10 years old fly by on Bird Scooters. And I thought to myself, some kid is going to die. And lots of people do die on these things: https://www.google.com/search?q=bird+scooters+deaths These scooter companies suck, I wish they'd all go away. If they weren't all going for hypergrow…

I understand your frustration, but that’s a remarkably similar response that people had to automobiles first being introduced. Not to imply you’re a Luddite clinging to your horse drawn carriages or anything. Just that these concerns aren’t new.

The unfortunate reality is that nothing has solved the last mile problem for public transportation as well as these scooters have.

Say you want to go to the store two miles away and don’t have a car. What are your options? Walk for an hour round trip, take a slow bus if you’re lucky enough to have both where you are and where you’re going on a bus route, or overpay for an uber/lyft/taxi, which due to their cost structure are generally less cost effective for shorter trips.

I agree the safety issues are of concern, but there’s really no better solution currently to that problem, which has been the hardest problem to solve since the advent of public transportation.

Re: Ford Buying San Francisco-Area E-Scooter Startup Spin

#76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This might be one of those San Francisco problems. In most places a combination of law enforcement and peer shaming would discourage cyclists from breaking the law. Cracking down on law-breaking cyclists in SF would "send the wrong message" though, and the local culture trends more towards self-regard than self-awareness.

Cyclists constantly break the law in literally every city I’ve ever seen cyclists in. As long as they’re being safe, I don’t really blame them either - very few cities are designed with cyclists in mind and the letter of the law is usually hugely inconvenient.

Seriously,

I have been a cyclist for a decade.

Saying things like "blowing through a stop sign" is stupid in the vast majority of cases, as stopping can actually be more unsafe.

Also, its so freaking tiresome to assume that every single human being is a fucking moron.

Cyclists have all their faculties, they can see, hear, move, discern. Thus, they are making a judgement to "blow through" a stop-sign in the same way anyone else makes a decision.

I once was yelled at by a guy who was waiting for a crosswalk, but all lights were red and all traffic was stopped - there was literally no traffic, and I was on the side of the T in the street, on Embarcadero in SF, where the bike lane continued through the intersection. There was literally no reason for a bike to stop for the light, as there was no reason for any other vehicle to interfere with the bike lane.

So I continued on, and this guy got so angry and was yelling at me and flipping me off becuase I didnt obey the red light.

It didnt make sense to "obey" so I didnt.

This can happen a lot, where the rule is to stop, but all other inputs are contrary to the rule.

So, be smart, be aware, stop when it is necessary, but not necessarily when it is "required".

Re: Ford Buying San Francisco-Area E-Scooter Startup Spin

#78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Detroiter here - I'm off of Adams Ave. downtown, next to Grand Circus Park/Comerica. Ford needs - 1) Better styling. I just bought a Grand Cherokee, and despite the 2020 Ford Explorer being RWD, I would never consider a Ford vehicle. Their exterior/interior styling is bland. 2) An off-road sub brand to compete against Jeep. The upcoming Bronco/baby Bronco/Ranger is a start, but Jeep is making a killing with the brand…

I have no idea what I’m going to get when my 17 Focus ST dies, hopefully there will still be manual (or at least sporty electric) hatchbacks...

Miata Is Always The Answer?

Maybe there will be a hatchback Miata by that point.

Re: Ford Buying San Francisco-Area E-Scooter Startup Spin

#79
post #67
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> because cyclists are weird and it's okay to tell them to just ride in amongst trucks travelling 40mph. This is unsustainable. It's caused blowback from cyclists. "Fine, you want me to play in traffic, I'm going to start doing some dumb shit." I say this as a cyclist, I'm doing only 5 miles round trip but I do it every day. I see people blow red lights, weaving in and out of traffic, hopping onto the sidewalk, blast…

Start doing dumb shit? I've been seeing cyclist blow through stop signs for 30 years.

> I've been seeing cyclist blow through stop signs for 30 years.

One reason cyclists don’t stop at stop signs is because it’s the biggest energy drain to have to come to a full stop, killing all momentum, and then pick up speed again from zero. If a cyclist approaching a stop sign sees that there is no traffic, and it’s not even a busy street, then that cyclist will likely just keep going. I’m not saying whether that’s right or wrong, just trying to shed some light on why it happens. Of course, if someone is complaining about a cyclist not stopping then that cyclist probably did it on a road with traffic, and so that cyclist was a douche. So yep it’s mostly because stop-and-go drains a lot of energy, and stopping for roads with no traffic can feel unreasonable. But other times a cyclist is just a douche. Scooter riders probably will not feel the same way about stop signs with no traffic, as they’re motor-powered instead of foot-powered.

Re: Ford Buying San Francisco-Area E-Scooter Startup Spin

#80
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Start doing dumb shit? I've been seeing cyclist blow through stop signs for 30 years.

Personal anecdote, cyclists blow through stop signs because the infrastructure isn't built for bicycles. Having to come to a stop and then start up on a bicycle is the hardest part and cyclists hate it. Source: Commuting to work on a bicycle for years.

Uhh, so how exactly would you reccomend building the infrastructure to support the use case of 'never having to stop'? Intersections are a thing, and bridges/overpasses are very expensive - especially if you start demanding them at literally ever one.
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