Apple walks Ars through the iPad Pro’s A12X system on a chip • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple walks Ars through the iPad Pro’s A12X system on a chip

#71

Post by dpkonofa » Wed, Nov 07, 2018, 10:47 PM UTC

camillomiller wrote: post #37

Svexav wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does it have to be a laptop? What not an iPhone with a desktop mode you can pair with a monitor, keyboard, and trackpad? I’d love the ability to carry all my software and data around in a phone without lugging around a laptop or having to buy a desktop computer. And I’d love to never concern myself with transferring or syncing data again. And why not let us connect an iPhone to an eGPU for desktop gaming?

Look up what Tim Cook thinks about convergence. That is not what an iPhone is for. Period. This gimmick is just a pipedream of us nerds. It won't have the slightest chance in the market and it would be a subpar product. Both Huawei and Samsung have implemented such a solution on their flagship smartphones since at least two years. They work as advertised, but nobody could give half a shit about them.

You can't say "Period" like that. Apple's endgame (in the far future) is for you to wear an Apple device that allows you to sit at any Apple computer/display/device anywhere and access your information from iCloud. Right now, that doesn't make sense because we can't make phones or watches that are as powerful as a desktop PC. Tim's (and Steve before him) insistence is that people don't want to do advanced graphic work on a tiny screen. If you could wirelessly and seamlessly use the same device to do that work on a larger screen, powered by that phone, they would absolutely want to push that. They just want people in the ecosystem. It's not that those things aren't what an iPhone or iPad are for, it's that they're not what those devices are for yet.

Re: Apple walks Ars through the iPad Pro’s A12X system on a chip

#72

Post by sundvor » Wed, Nov 07, 2018, 10:49 PM UTC

Svexav wrote: post #31

carlesfe wrote: post #13

Apple are paving the way to A-chip laptops, not only by building excellent tech, but also PR-wise. Their last keynote was clearly a gymnastics exercise to ignore Intel CPUs and dismiss laptop performance while later praising their own chips which power a tablet that has no software ready to use that much speed. The fact that one of the most secretive companies executes a PR-stunt by providing an exclusive interview t…

Why does it have to be a laptop? What not an iPhone with a desktop mode you can pair with a monitor, keyboard, and trackpad? I’d love the ability to carry all my software and data around in a phone without lugging around a laptop or having to buy a desktop computer. And I’d love to never concern myself with transferring or syncing data again. And why not let us connect an iPhone to an eGPU for desktop gaming?

You just described the Samsung DeX.

Re: Apple walks Ars through the iPad Pro’s A12X system on a chip

#73

Post by icanhackit » Wed, Nov 07, 2018, 10:50 PM UTC

ianai wrote: post #18

carlesfe wrote: post #13

Apple are paving the way to A-chip laptops, not only by building excellent tech, but also PR-wise. Their last keynote was clearly a gymnastics exercise to ignore Intel CPUs and dismiss laptop performance while later praising their own chips which power a tablet that has no software ready to use that much speed. The fact that one of the most secretive companies executes a PR-stunt by providing an exclusive interview t…

That sounds like a truthful explanation of their motives. On the one hand, I definitely welcome challengers to the chip industry. On the other, I remember the Power days. Having non Mac users “talk down” to me about using a different processor was beyond annoying. It adds a quill to the Mac haters. Here’s hoping Apple produces cpus that outperform their competitors like their 2 G/s ssds do. Also makes me not really h…

> On the other, I remember the Power days. Having non Mac users “talk down” to me about using a different processor was beyond annoying.

Sample size of one and all that - but for me it was a selling point. The PowerPC G5 (PPC 970) was intriguing when it first came out. Having been with Intel, Cyrix and AMD systems since the 286 and used them since XT (Intel 8088) days, it was nice to muck around with something new and paired with OSX Tiger it was such a fun world to explore. The move to Intel felt like a bit of a letdown, but by that time I loved OSX and Snow Leopard cemented it as my OS of choice.

Apple desktops/laptops moving to custom silicon would excite the nerd in me. I want competition.

Re: Apple walks Ars through the iPad Pro’s A12X system on a chip

#74

Post by theluketaylor » Wed, Nov 07, 2018, 10:51 PM UTC

yurishimo wrote: post #62

theluketaylor wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The near total lack of the word "intel" at the keynote was certainly quite noticeable. The question is how much was that a negotiating ploy for better pricing/stock with intel and how much was positioning for arm macs. I think a bit of both. I went back to remind myself of the details of the switch from powerpc to intel. It was announced at wwdc 2005 (june) when they released a developer transition kit. The announcem…

Just curious, but how would custom silicon work with something like gaming engines? I know there are engines out there that support an ARM architecture, but as it is currently, you can run a lot of games fairly easily on Macs. And with eGPUs being officially supported now, gaming on a Mac is not a terrible experience. Would moving off of traditional desktop CPUs harm that? Is there a way to do compatibility at the OS…

At one point intel had committed to releasing the thunderbolt spec to the industry, so at least in theory arm macs could also support egpu. Games would have to be complied to support macOS on arm, but nintendo switch is also arm so that isn't necessarily taking game companies somewhere they don't already have to go.

https://newsroom.intel.com/editorials/envision-world-thunder...

Re: Apple walks Ars through the iPad Pro’s A12X system on a chip

#75

Post by iagooar » Wed, Nov 07, 2018, 10:52 PM UTC

threeseed wrote: post #66

iagooar wrote: post #56

This is nuts. The iPad Pro is so massively ahead of the game, it's even hard to believe. It is faster than the MBP 2017 and ALMOST as fast as the MBP 2018. We're talking a device that is 5.9mm thick and is battery-powered! Now here's my prediction: Apple does not really want to build an ARM-powered MBP. Instead, they will eventually allow iPads to double boot into iOS and/or MacOS. Call me crazy, but this would be hu…

This will never, ever happen. You can't use OSX with your finger. There are millions of places across the OS and applications where the hit point is too small for a finger. You just need to compare the keys on the iOS keyboard and then compare that to the traffic lights on OSX.

Mouse support :)

Re: Apple walks Ars through the iPad Pro’s A12X system on a chip

#76

Post by briandear » Wed, Nov 07, 2018, 10:56 PM UTC

theluketaylor wrote: post #46

Shivetya wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

with the iPad line there is no reason to move the computer line to ARM. They would alienate a lot of the current user base who has software there are no Arm equivalents nor likely to ever be one. while I have seen many laud the iPad Pro for its power I haven't see any mention of heat or how long it can sustain a workload. Personally I do not want to see the Mac line change processors again for two reasons, like I men…

iPad, especially with the limitations artificially imposed by iOS is a content consumption device first. You can trick it into other tasks, but it's not a primary computer. If I was apple I wouldn't go all in on arm macs. I'd build arm thin and light laptops to get incredible battery life and leave the pro line as x86 for at least the next 3+ years. Even if I did decide to stop building new x86 devices I'd support ma…

Besides compiling code, what can’t an iPad do in terms of “creation” that a similarly priced laptop can do? You can edit movies on it, heck, you can even film movies with it, you can write, edit photos, do drafting and drawing (something that laptops can’t easily do,) you can make music on it, use it as a Logic Pro controller. The only think you can’t easily “create” on iPad is code. You can do spreadsheets, work processing, create Keynotes, take notes, manage a calendar. You can manage your HomeKit stuff.

Seems far cry from being just a consumption device. That canard is getting old. A guess since you can’t run Linux on it or run a sever with it, somehow it isn’t creative?

Re: Apple walks Ars through the iPad Pro’s A12X system on a chip

#77

Post by ryacko » Wed, Nov 07, 2018, 11:00 PM UTC

briandear wrote: post #76

theluketaylor wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

iPad, especially with the limitations artificially imposed by iOS is a content consumption device first. You can trick it into other tasks, but it's not a primary computer. If I was apple I wouldn't go all in on arm macs. I'd build arm thin and light laptops to get incredible battery life and leave the pro line as x86 for at least the next 3+ years. Even if I did decide to stop building new x86 devices I'd support ma…

Besides compiling code, what can’t an iPad do in terms of “creation” that a similarly priced laptop can do? You can edit movies on it, heck, you can even film movies with it, you can write, edit photos, do drafting and drawing (something that laptops can’t easily do,) you can make music on it, use it as a Logic Pro controller. The only think you can’t easily “create” on iPad is code. You can do spreadsheets, work pro…

Well, ackshually, you can run a server from your phone.

https://stackoverflow.com/questions/8417321/run-a-webserver-... https://github.com/robbiehanson/CocoaHTTPServer

Re: Apple walks Ars through the iPad Pro’s A12X system on a chip

#78

Post by dharma1 » Wed, Nov 07, 2018, 11:02 PM UTC

Natela wrote: post #51

camillomiller wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look up what Tim Cook thinks about convergence. That is not what an iPhone is for. Period. This gimmick is just a pipedream of us nerds. It won't have the slightest chance in the market and it would be a subpar product. Both Huawei and Samsung have implemented such a solution on their flagship smartphones since at least two years. They work as advertised, but nobody could give half a shit about them.

Samsung didn't implement convergence, they implemented Android-with-a-keyboard-on-a-big-screen . True convergence would be something like Ubuntu Touch wanted to do

I worked on Ubuntu Touch (specifically convergence) for a few years.

I think it's really interesting what Apple are trying to do (with Marzipan, pro apps for iPad, desktop level SoC's) but I think they still have a couple of years work ahead of them. It's not an easy task, especially with so much legacy.

Getting Adobe and Autodesk to rewrite their flagship software for iOS was quite a good win, though I still wonder how those compare to the desktop versions

Re: Apple walks Ars through the iPad Pro’s A12X system on a chip

#79

Post by snowwrestler » Wed, Nov 07, 2018, 11:10 PM UTC

dpkonofa wrote: post #71

camillomiller wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look up what Tim Cook thinks about convergence. That is not what an iPhone is for. Period. This gimmick is just a pipedream of us nerds. It won't have the slightest chance in the market and it would be a subpar product. Both Huawei and Samsung have implemented such a solution on their flagship smartphones since at least two years. They work as advertised, but nobody could give half a shit about them.

You can't say "Period" like that. Apple's endgame (in the far future) is for you to wear an Apple device that allows you to sit at any Apple computer/display/device anywhere and access your information from iCloud. Right now, that doesn't make sense because we can't make phones or watches that are as powerful as a desktop PC. Tim's (and Steve before him) insistence is that people don't want to do advanced graphic wor…

Ambient computing doesn't mean that all the computing devices can do the same thing, i.e. that a phone or a watch or a tablet will do everything a laptop can do. It means that distinct devices are integrated into a single experience in a complementary way.

> If you could wirelessly and seamlessly use the same device to do that work on a larger screen, powered by that phone, they would absolutely want to push that.

This vision works just as well if the larger screen is powered by its own computer instead of the phone.

Re: Apple walks Ars through the iPad Pro’s A12X system on a chip

#80

Post by chongli » Wed, Nov 07, 2018, 11:11 PM UTC

Svexav wrote: post #31

carlesfe wrote: post #13

Apple are paving the way to A-chip laptops, not only by building excellent tech, but also PR-wise. Their last keynote was clearly a gymnastics exercise to ignore Intel CPUs and dismiss laptop performance while later praising their own chips which power a tablet that has no software ready to use that much speed. The fact that one of the most secretive companies executes a PR-stunt by providing an exclusive interview t…

Why does it have to be a laptop? What not an iPhone with a desktop mode you can pair with a monitor, keyboard, and trackpad? I’d love the ability to carry all my software and data around in a phone without lugging around a laptop or having to buy a desktop computer. And I’d love to never concern myself with transferring or syncing data again. And why not let us connect an iPhone to an eGPU for desktop gaming?

Why sell us one device when they can sell us two or three? I own an iPhone and a MacBook Pro. Why would Apple want to leave all that money on the table by converging these two devices?