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CNN Money: Microsoft is a Dying Consumer Brand

money.cnn.com

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Re: CNN Money: Microsoft is a Dying Consumer Brand

#71

Post by m104 »

cryptoz wrote: post #3

I firmly believe that most of Microsoft's failings in the consumer market come from their fear of the World Wide Web. Microsoft does everything they can to hide their users from the real power of the web, since everyone - including Microsoft - knows that a ubiquitous Web means fewer sales of Windows and Office. Their logic in locking users to Windows-based experiences is old, tired, and not going to work anymore. Peo…

What's particularly vexing to me is that Microsoft seems to have given up on giving developers the best experience, as well. Why would anyone want to develop a web app targeted for IE 7.5, especially given that the market share of this new IE version will be squat for awhile, perhaps always. Will WP8 bring about a new custom flavor of IE? Will there be an upgrade, mid-cycle?

In the same vein: A lot of criticism has been leveled at the new WP7 ads, but I haven't seen much coverage from the developers' perspective. Is Microsoft implying that WP7 customers aren't going to spend much time on their phones? Again, why develop for or port to the WP7 platform if Microsoft's ad strategy is based on the idea that the customer won't actually use the device that often or for very long.

Perhaps it's hubris or just ignorance on their part, but making things harder or more confusing for developers isn't going to bring in the profit for third-party developers or Microsoft.

Re: CNN Money: Microsoft is a Dying Consumer Brand

#72

Post by DavidBishop »

alanthonyc wrote: post #13
cryptoz wrote: post #3

I firmly believe that most of Microsoft's failings in the consumer market come from their fear of the World Wide Web. Microsoft does everything they can to hide their users from the real power of the web, since everyone - including Microsoft - knows that a ubiquitous Web means fewer sales of Windows and Office. Their logic in locking users to Windows-based experiences is old, tired, and not going to work anymore. Peo…

They're also scared of phones. Check out their Phone 7 commercials. They appear to be catering to people who think people with phones are douchebags who walk around staring at their screen all day. I'm not sure how well this marketing strategy will work, because I am one of those douchebags, but it doesn't make me want to get one.

I haven't seen the commercials, but I did follow the launch event. One thing was said so often and was so... odd... I had to go back and write it down:

"We've focused in on how real people want to use their phones when they're on the go -- we want you to get in, out, and back to life as fast as humanly possible."

First of all, some of the animations on some of their apps have a bit of time to them and don't really fit in with that mantra. But more importantly, I'm not sure what market they are heading for and what they want to say. Do they want their apps to be immersive or lightweight? Do they want people to enjoy their phone or try to use it as little as possible?

In the end the message to me makes their phones sound non-engaging. Not the greatest selling point in my opinion. Imagine the iPhone commercial where they run through 5 apps in 30 seconds. The Windows Phone 7 equivalent would be a 5-second commercial with someone quickly hitting two buttons and saying "Done. Glad that's over.". Interesting marketing strategy.

Re: CNN Money: Microsoft is a Dying Consumer Brand

#73

Post by hugh3 »

brentb wrote: post #52
lkrubner wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"since everyone - including Microsoft - knows that a ubiquitous Web means fewer sales of Windows and Office" I would think that the real problem is Microsoft's unwillingness to become something completely new, something other than Windows and Office. Apple was a computer company, then it became a cell phone company, a music company, a lot of other things. Microsoft now sort of reminds me of Sun circa 1999: yes, they…

"I would think that the real problem is Microsoft's unwillingness to become something completely new, something other than Windows and Office." Inability, perhaps. Unwillingness? You're out of your mind. Microsoft has had their fingers in smartphones, music players, search engines, touch computing, web mail, [you name it] for YEARS. And they are not just dabbling... they have poured billions into these areas, trying…

Xbox was their last big success in entering a new market. That's just under a decade ago.

The problem is that they have a sucky innovation model. They find something that's already successful, throw money at making a slightly better version (or whatever they can convince themselves is a slightly better version).

Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. It worked when they copied the Macintosh to make Windows. It worked when they copied Netscape to make IE. It worked when they copied Playstation to make Xbox. It stopped working when they copied iPod to make Zune, and continued to not work when they copied Google to make Bing.

Why it's stopped working? Either (a) a run of bad luck or (b) folks have learned to preempt Microsoft's move or (c) the really good people don't work for Microsoft any more.

Re: CNN Money: Microsoft is a Dying Consumer Brand

#74

Post by btilly »

brudgers wrote: post #28

Saying "Microsoft is a Dying Consumer Brand" is somewhat analogous to saying "Mitsubishi is a Dying Consumer Brand." Though the structures are different, consumer products are only a part of their portfolio. Both have successful industrial lines, and both have flagship consumer lines that often draw flack. Importantly, both own highly successful consumer brands e.g Xbox and Nikon, respectively. What the article misse…

What the article misses is that Microsoft has an asset that it's competitors often don't: trust.

What technical person trusts Microsoft? I don't mean to be flippant, but the reputation they have among technical people that I know is that their stuff is poorly designed, insecure, and buggy.

Disclaimer: I got fed up with their poorly designed and buggy software in the late 90s, and have had Linux as my primary development platform ever since.

Re: CNN Money: Microsoft is a Dying Consumer Brand

#75

Post by kenjackson »

cryptoz wrote: post #3

I firmly believe that most of Microsoft's failings in the consumer market come from their fear of the World Wide Web. Microsoft does everything they can to hide their users from the real power of the web, since everyone - including Microsoft - knows that a ubiquitous Web means fewer sales of Windows and Office. Their logic in locking users to Windows-based experiences is old, tired, and not going to work anymore. Peo…

IE is actually not so bad at the web. At least not for the end user (argument about stifling development and innovation aside). As a user of IE, I actually have a better experience with IE than I do with Chrome w/ the sole exception being performance. I'm sure there are sites that don't work on IE, but honestly the only ones I've ever seen are those posted here on HN :-)

With that said, everything I've heard from people in MS (and some who work on IE) is that this is the first time in MS's history where their goal is to actually make IE the best web browsers against the standards. They are targeting to be able to legitimately say that the best platform for HTML5 apps is IE. Only time will tell on that.

But I do think it is naive to think a phone will fail because it is based on the worlds most popular web browsing engine. Any more than a phone might fail because it has no physical keyboard, no 3G support, no Flash, and no native apps.

Re: CNN Money: Microsoft is a Dying Consumer Brand

#76

Post by DavidBishop »

Typhon wrote: post #61
DavidBishop wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, Apple is the one taking the consumer market. 1 in every 5 retail computer sales is a Mac. Best Buy's CEO recently said that 50% of their laptop sales have been cannibalized by the iPad - a 6 month old product. Apple is the #1 technology company on the planet by market cap and recently attained the 3rd place in computers by market share. Their stock price has grown over 2000% in 10 years. Apple is the one po…

OH GOD NO ! I'd rather have Microsoft's monopoly endure than have it replaced by Apple domination. Perhaps they make better software, but they're also much better at being evil.

Now is that any way to talk about your soon to be computer overlords? ;)

I don't agree that Apple is evil, just rigid. They are very strict about what they allow for the sake of a good user experience (and to avoid a black eye on their account).

And with them being the #1 tech company on the planet, there have to be a large number of people who really like their products. Actually, in recent surveys they were - The number 1 sought after phone OS of those ready to buy smartphones (at 38% just one point above android) - The number 1 in overall customer service (86) by a fair margin (9 points) - The number 1 in smart phone satisfaction (800 vs next in line 791).

Re: CNN Money: Microsoft is a Dying Consumer Brand

#77

Post by mfukar »

Tyrannosaurs wrote: post #33
scrrr wrote: post #18

Was Microsoft ever such a big brand? Google is, Apple is, Dell is, but with Microsoft it is more like many Brands: Windows, XBox, Zune.. I think the main things that people immediately associate with the actual word "Microsoft" might be mice and keyboards. But, (at least in my perception) they are slowly beginning to address the problem of decreasing user numbers. See their marketing at "Colbert Report" and, recently…

As of October 2009, Microsoft Windows had a desktop market share of 91% (and that figure is probably still about 88% today). Office makes that look a little weak with a market share of about 95%. You are kidding that people think of them as a mouse and keyboard company aren't you? Dell, one of your listed brands, by contrast have a market share of about 11.5%.

I think a better way to put it is this:

When you hear "XPS" your mind doesn't immediately go to the Dell laptop (probably).

When you hear "Microsoft" though, "Windows", "Office", "Xbox", all the jazz, immediately go through your head.

Re: CNN Money: Microsoft is a Dying Consumer Brand

#78

Post by ceejayoz »

blub wrote: post #43
cryptoz wrote: post #3

I firmly believe that most of Microsoft's failings in the consumer market come from their fear of the World Wide Web. Microsoft does everything they can to hide their users from the real power of the web, since everyone - including Microsoft - knows that a ubiquitous Web means fewer sales of Windows and Office. Their logic in locking users to Windows-based experiences is old, tired, and not going to work anymore. Peo…

What is so great about HTML5 and JS for me, the user? That you can get my location? That you can have video (just like Flash, except slower)? Or is it that you can store stuff on my machine? HTML5 is one more step in the direction of web pages pretending to be applications. Reading about "the web" on HN is like reading the story of Icarus. HN'ers are so enchanted by web apps that they forget they can only fly on the…

If nothing else, the new semantic article/header/nav etc. tags will make it easier for search engines to deliver good results to users.

Re: CNN Money: Microsoft is a Dying Consumer Brand

#79

Post by kmfrk »

The place where I start to get leery is when Microsoft take a product like Live Messenger, which had finally become a near-perfect product, and bloat it into a dreadful "social media" whizbang media applet interface aeroplane control panel. I later found out (after copious reinstallations and attempts at finding an earlier version at oldversions.com) that there's a tiny icon, of which the chance to find is several orders of magnitude smaller than that of the Higgs boson - that restores the bloated piece of crap to a an actual IM-only client.

Of course, Microsoft also made the effort of cramming in more awful toolbars (that can't be removed) and replacing all the emoticons with a new suite of something even worse than what you would expect to find in a ten-year-old version of ICQ.

This may sound silly, but all chat clients on- and offline have dreadful emoticons; emoticons are meant to disambiguate and diffuse in favour of the sender and represent their mood and tone. That is their purpose. It really makes interaction with friends and acquaintances much easier and joyous. There's a limit to how you can stand out from other IM clients, and this is perhaps the biggest yard stick.

Live Messenger had the best (the only good) set of emoticons, and now Windows have thrown it all away while bloating the client even more.

I am fine with them throwing billions at something that may or may not work, but why the hell are they destroying their biggest brand products in this futile attempt to becoming relevant and cool?

I shudder at the thought at what Windows 8 will be like. Will they implement Clippy in the terminal to compete with Mac OS?

Re: CNN Money: Microsoft is a Dying Consumer Brand

#80

Post by mcknz »

trustfundbaby wrote: post #36
scrrr wrote: post #18

Was Microsoft ever such a big brand? Google is, Apple is, Dell is, but with Microsoft it is more like many Brands: Windows, XBox, Zune.. I think the main things that people immediately associate with the actual word "Microsoft" might be mice and keyboards. But, (at least in my perception) they are slowly beginning to address the problem of decreasing user numbers. See their marketing at "Colbert Report" and, recently…

> Was Microsoft ever such a big brand? umm ... yeah. they kinda were a big deal. There was a time where PC's used to be called 'Wintel' (Windows/Intel) machines because pretty much every PC made had Windows on it. > I think the main things that people immediately associate with the actual word "Microsoft" might be mice and keyboards. Wishful thinking ... although I think eventually this will happen. Between Microsoft…

I don't know about down the toilet, but they are definitely settling in the bowl.
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