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Compared to you, most people seem dumb

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Re: Compared to you, most people seem dumb

#71
post #10

Two things to say here. First, "dumb" is not the right word. My wife is a theoretical physicist - thus pretty much guaranteed to be "not dumb" - but is not fully cognizant of the fact that URLs exist. She, too, has Google as her default home page and types what she wants into it. And she has Google search on the toolbar and types what she wants into that . Even if what she wants is the name of the site , she goes thr…

That's actually a pretty good strategy. Google will get you there more reliably than typing, thanks to typos and such.

Re: Compared to you, most people seem dumb

#72
post #38
post #6

The underlying issue is that people are afraid to try and explore. They form a mental model of how to do something, look for something that fits into that model, and then are happy. If they guess the wrong model, though, then they are stuck forever. Skilled computer users, on the other hand, don't let a failing model bother them. They just try something else. Most people will do this for anything but computers, thoug…

Exactly. I think the fundamental disconnect is between people who see an unfamiliar user interface and immediately try to figure it out, and people who see an unfamiliar UI and think "Oh no what the hell is this, I don't remember it! Panic, panic, panic!". Obviously it's not as sharp a dichotomy as that, but it definitely exists. A lot of people learn to use computers by memorizing a sequence of steps which, if follo…

people who see an unfamiliar UI and think "Oh no what the hell is this, I don't remember it! Panic, panic, panic!"

Or sometimes people see an unfamiliar UI, think "ugh---yet another drain on my time to figure this out", consider the value of what they are trying to do, and may decide it's not worth it. This is why I largely stopped using MS Office when the "ribbon" debuted. It seemed to me to be an arbitrary change to something that had been long familiar, and I decided "I really don't need Office anyway" and stopped using it.

Re: Compared to you, most people seem dumb

#73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ditto for my stepdad, electrical engineer, holds more patents than I own books, and has put something on fucking Mars . Still can't get his webcam to work, and keeps every document on his desktop. It's just a matter of different knowledge domains. If you tossed me into the woods with experienced naturalists, they'd probably laugh every time I wiped with poison oak, too.

What did he put on Mars?

A slight exaggeration, but he worked on the mass spectrography unit at UT Dallas, and that was part of the Phoenix mission.

If you'd like to point out that it ended up having some problems due to an electrical short circuit and have a giggle, please do so now. :)

He also ended up clearing out the entire building one day, because I think he left some chemicals on a hot plate. Every time after that, when the fire department would get called for whatever reason, if the fire chief saw him wandering around, he'd bellow, "STEIN, WHAT DID YOU DO THIS TIME!"

Fun times.

Re: Compared to you, most people seem dumb

#74
post #6

The underlying issue is that people are afraid to try and explore. They form a mental model of how to do something, look for something that fits into that model, and then are happy. If they guess the wrong model, though, then they are stuck forever. Skilled computer users, on the other hand, don't let a failing model bother them. They just try something else. Most people will do this for anything but computers, thoug…

Absolutely. And they're afraid to try and explore because: a) they've been burned before, and broken something or lost data These people need to be untaught that you can break computers, which is much harder. As is writing fault-tolerant software and humane interfaces. b) mental models are abstractions, and there seem to be a large number of people who just don't cope with abstraction very well. I'm hopeful that touc…

There are also too many inconsistent UI representations for common operations. Do you ever see the "up" and "down" call buttons for an elevator placed side-by-side? Or vertically, but with "up" below "down"? Yet often times it seems that UI designers do stuff like this, maybe for no other reason than to try to put a unique stamp on their designs.

Re: Compared to you, most people seem dumb

#75
post #6

The underlying issue is that people are afraid to try and explore. They form a mental model of how to do something, look for something that fits into that model, and then are happy. If they guess the wrong model, though, then they are stuck forever. Skilled computer users, on the other hand, don't let a failing model bother them. They just try something else. Most people will do this for anything but computers, thoug…

My grandma calls me up and says "I want to move my computer into the other room, will you come over and plug everything in for me?". I tell her "the plugs will only fit one way round into the correct sockets, you literally can't go wrong". She calls me back, saying that her mouse isn't working. I go over and take a look. She'd forced the USB connector on her mouse into an Ethernet socket with such force that she crac…

You've never plugged a USB cable into an Ethernet socket? Often it doesn't even take any force.

Re: Compared to you, most people seem dumb

#76
I just mailed this post to my partners. We recently merged.

They sold individual accounts to teacher and students. I sold accounts to schools.

Their users are very web savvy and need no training. My users did not seek out the app online. They are being asked by their schools to use the application.

We are noticing now how things we took for granted in the UI are now being questioned. These new users are struggling with the same exact UI that the others picked up and ran with.

Although it is a much larger sale, we are finding ourselves having to "hide" most of our options behind an "advanced" button. We are giving the school admins control to set all of the options and therefore simplifying the app as much as possible. This will make our new users feel comfortable.

Great post.

Re: Compared to you, most people seem dumb

#77
post #50

Apparently you can book tickets, check email and do all sorts of stuff online without knowing that each website has a distinct address called a URL. Yes. The days of DNS as a mainstream human interface are numbered.

So we'll be going back to AOL keywords?

Re: Compared to you, most people seem dumb

#78

Tech people, and especially the circle that is absorbed in the startup/techcrunch/combinator thing, have to be the most incredibly self absorbed, solipsistic bunch of twits in creation. Most people are busy earning a living or living their lives doing something that actually matters, and the subtle nuance of details that tech startup types endlessly masturbate over is trivial background noise to most of the normal wo…

Go fuck yourself.

Re: Compared to you, most people seem dumb

#79

I've found a fairly useful analogy that helps most tech people. If you're into cars and the analogy doesn't work, just think of something you need to know about at some point, but probably don't know much about at all. Mostly this helps when a customer feels guilty about needing help, or someone in IT thinks "me > all" because they can enter a command line. I think of my role like this: Your average non-tech person p…

If you are changing your oil every three months then you are almost certainly wasting money. You should trust the integrity of the oil change shop about as much as you would trust an 'SEO expert.' There might be good ones, but most are looking to maximize profit at your expense.

This. Whoooooooosh.

So, now he knows he's wasting money, but he doesn't know how to exit that state. Essentially, you've told him "You're doing it wrong" (in a helpful tone, to be fair).

Re: Compared to you, most people seem dumb

#80
post #6

The underlying issue is that people are afraid to try and explore. They form a mental model of how to do something, look for something that fits into that model, and then are happy. If they guess the wrong model, though, then they are stuck forever. Skilled computer users, on the other hand, don't let a failing model bother them. They just try something else. Most people will do this for anything but computers, thoug…

>They form a mental model of how to do something, look for something that fits into that model, and then are happy. If they guess the wrong model, though, then they are stuck forever.

>Most people will do this for anything but computers, though, which is weird. If their favorite road to the CHEZBURGER store is closed, they will find another road. But if it happens online... panic, frozen.

I think you overestimate people's ability to find different models for things in their life. Their ingrained model just happens to have a fall-back plan, but outside of that most people simple aren't problem solvers. But I agree that it's particularly bad when dealing with anything electronic.

One thing that I have to keep telling myself is that most of my world, the stuff I do, the people I interact with regularly, etc., is a world composed almost entirely of people, tools, philosophy and mechanisms steeped in the mystique of "problem solving". Whenever I get out of that world, I'm usually mystified at how generally people run into very simple real life problems they can't seem to surmount.

The second is that half the human population gets by with an IQ under 100. (I also use this to motivate myself).

> Skilled computer users, on the other hand, don't let a failing model bother them. They just try something else.

I like this analogy, problem solving then seems to be the ability to quickly craft and test mental models against a situation till one of them provides a good enough estimate to describe with the situation. This is actually a powerful way of thinking about problem solving. Once you think of building models, a whole host of new cognitive tools become available.

Anecdote: I worked with a guy with a background in business, educated at absolutely the top schools, MBA, the works. He spent his formative working years selling a shrink-wrapped product that had no support tail whatsoever. There was no execution part of a client engagement outside of ensuring proper delivery of the product. Later he found himself in a different company, with me as a sales engineer, selling a very high touch product - every sale had to have a support tail (it seems onerous, but is a great opportunity to build a strong relationship with the customer).Yet he kept acting like he was still selling the previous kind of product.

After a couple years of this, and seeing lots of missed opportunity because he simply didn't get the "client relationship building and execution" part of the business (so getting follow on sales, or expanding business with a previous client was very challenging) I finally lamented to our mutual boss...he, an engineer by training, but since then with decades of experience in highly successful businesses, told me, "you simply can't project your problem solving mindset onto him. You see the client engagement issue as a problem to be solved, and it agitates you like a nervous tick that has to be scratched. I've worked with many many people like this, business trained types, and problem solving doesn't run in their blood, they think of the world in terms of how to extract money from it."

I responded, "but I'm interested in making money as well".

He responded, correctly, "wrong, you are interested in solving the problem of making money, money is a secondary motivation."

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