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MongoDB's Server Side Public License Is Likely Unenforceable

processmechanics.com

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Re: MongoDB's Server Side Public License Is Likely Unenforceable

#71

Post by princekolt »

Okay so after reading the article, and thinking about this for a while, I get the following out of this debacle:

The issue here is that SaaS providers are building tools on top of MongoDB that effectively add functionality, instead of modifying MongoDB (which would force them to share those changes publicly).

This is a valid concern and I understand the motivation behind the license change. However, how is this different from any other FOSS?

Just as a random example, think of a proprietary blog/site provider like Tumblr and Weebly. They are effectively a SaaS provider that introduces tools on top of open-source web servers (like nginx or apache) to make hosting a website much easier. Instead of building the entire model/code of your website, you simply add customizations using a frontend.

Maybe the comparison is not ideal, but my understanding is that all FOSS suffers from this concern, and the industry seems to be doing well enough.

Re: MongoDB's Server Side Public License Is Likely Unenforceable

#72

Post by Thaxll »

GiorgioG wrote: post #29
haggy wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please take your unhelpful comments elsewhere

Unhelpful how? I'm providing an alternative NoSQL option (Postgres supports JSON - https://www.postgresql.org/docs/10/static/datatype-json.html ) and you don't have to deal with this MongoDB licensing nonsense.

NoSQL usually have built in constructs for horizontal Scalling / HA, pg have none of that.

Re: MongoDB's Server Side Public License Is Likely Unenforceable

#74

Post by wmf »

ianamartin wrote: post #59

It's hilarious to me that out of all the problems with the way MongoDB works it's the license, of all things, that gets a strong reaction from the HN crowd that says, "I'm never using that!"

MongoDB's technical problems are so well known that it's boring to bring them up again.

Re: MongoDB's Server Side Public License Is Likely Unenforceable

#76

Post by VanL »

DannyBee wrote: post #69
nebulous1 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's hypothetically say that a court agrees that this is copyright misuse. Where would that put existing MongoDB released under the SSPL? Surely not public domain, so where?

Depends on how well written/what court decides to do. I'm going to short circuit a lot of nuanced case law and differences between jurisdictions/courts here to give a clear answer: Usually these things are written so the clauses are severable. The court would then most of the time just remove the invalid pieces and leave the rest intact. If it is not severable, the contract stands or falls as a whole. If it falls, no…

Interesting thing about misuse, is that it prevents the enforcement of the copyright against even non-parties until the misuse has been dealt with.

Practically, that is probably dealt with via a blog post and a retreat to the AGPL, but still.

Re: MongoDB's Server Side Public License Is Likely Unenforceable

#77

Post by nebulous1 »

ninkendo wrote: post #68
DannyBee wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IP lawyer here :) "If so, why can't an author make this part of the license?" So let's separate out two questions implicit here: Can you make this part of a license? Would you win if you sued someone for violating it? The answer to the first is clearly yes, you can license it however you want :-). However, like most IP, in basically all countries there are limitations on how you are allowed to license things, to ensu…

I have a question about how derivative works are defined with respect to AGPL. With the GPL, you couldn't distribute software that links (at runtime) to GPL software, without open-sourcing your software as well. This is because, linking another piece of software to a GPL'd binary means you're creating a "derived work". That's why they made the LGPL (the "lesser" public license) which allows being linked to from close…

I think you're slightly off there. The AGPL doesn't apply to software accessing the AGPL licenced software over a network, it applies to the AGPL software that's being accessed. As in it applies when the software is being accessed over the network rather than when it's being distributed (as with the GPL). This is actually mentioned in the article.

Re: MongoDB's Server Side Public License Is Likely Unenforceable

#78

Post by jimktrains2 »

detaro wrote: post #19
akvadrako wrote: post #14

Is this similar to the GPL3 in intent to force website backends to become open source?

How does the GPL3 have that intent? AGPL does, but GPL?

My understanding is that AGPL does only for that piece of software, not all layers above it?

Re: MongoDB's Server Side Public License Is Likely Unenforceable

#79

Post by icebraining »

finchisko wrote: post #73

Just thinking. Can you make a fork of MongoDb before license change and keep merging upstream changes under former license? Not asking because I want to hurt Mongo, just curious.

Yes, you can fork, but no, you can't merge new changes, those come with a different license (except maybe for third-party contributions, you could ask them to double license them under the old one too).

Re: MongoDB's Server Side Public License Is Likely Unenforceable

#80

Post by vesak »

icedchai wrote: post #39
macintux wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

MongoDB made some very sketchy, undocumented (or poorly documented) technical decisions in its early years that placed data at great risk. It's better now, but very few things worry technical people more than a database that loses data. It's hard to get past that early impression.

Then again, so did MySQL. Do you remember the MySQL 3.x "MyISAM" days? No transactions, automatic truncation and type conversions, etc...

...and a significant portion of IT people still distrust MySQL.
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