Earlier quoted context omitted.
If I order a meal at McDonald's and don't eat the fries, is that fraud, because the cost of a burger plus soda separately maybe more than the meal with a burger, soda and the fries?
Technically yes, but the injury is de minimis so McDonald's isn't likely to demand recompense in this situation.
United Airlines Threatens to Engage Collections for Passengers Who Skip Segments
71–80 of 157 posts
Re: United Airlines Threatens to Engage Collections for Passengers Who Skip Segments
#72I am genuinely entirely fucking sick of the awful experience of booking air travel. The thought of doing it fills me with dread now.
Here is a recent example: a return flight booked with my partner from the UK to the US. His company later wants to send him to a conference in a place nearby a couple of days prior, and of course will happily pay for travel there, and on to our actual destination. “That’s okay”, I think; “I can cancel the outgoing leg of his flight, even if I don’t get a refund”.
Not. Possible. The price British Airways wants to charge me for cancelling one leg of a return flight for one passenger is more than the entire cost for two return tickets. Of course, he can’t just skip that flight, since the inbound will be cancelled.
Literally nobody gains from this. It reinforces the point that consumer cost is now entirely decoupled from the cost of service. On top of this, the process of buying tickets is utterly baffling. Multiple aggregators linking to multiple external agents who in turn are selling tickets cheaper than the airline directly. Codeshares charged at multiples of the cost for being on the exact same flight. And the obvious hidden city stuff.
Surely I’m not the only one who just wants to exchange money for a flight, based roughly on the actual cost? Even accepting that I might pay more for better cabins, or hold baggage, or advance seat selection? Is the current mess genuinely more profitable? Is there any way to fix it besides some kind of regulation of fares? Is there a disruptor?
Re: United Airlines Threatens to Engage Collections for Passengers Who Skip Segments
#73Earlier quoted context omitted.
Technically yes, but the injury is de minimis so McDonald's isn't likely to demand recompense in this situation.
No, because you did not make, and McDonald's did not rely on, any representation of your intent to eat the fries.
Re: United Airlines Threatens to Engage Collections for Passengers Who Skip Segments
#74Earlier quoted context omitted.
Attorney here! (Not providing legal advice, though.) The elements of common law civil fraud are as follows: 1. Somebody intentionally misrepresents a material fact in order to obtain action or forbearance by another person ("I am traveling to ILM from SFO" but in fact is going to IAD); 2. The other person relies upon the misrepresentation (United prices the fare as though the passenger were going to ILM instead of IA…
Your argument fails hard at point #1. A ticket buyer, through merely the act of purchasing a ticket, isn't making a material representation. You should have argued contract law. That's perhaps a winning argument. Civil Fraud isn't because you'd have to argue that the simple act of clicking a "buy" button on a web-site is akin to a representation, and by extension a misrepresenting, an argument which you'd never win.…
Are you an attorney?
Putting an origin and a destination in a form and asking for the price is a clear representation of intent, not to mention buying said ticket. Intent need not be verbally communicated; any conduct that is recognized as a representation is sufficient. This is basic civil law; your strict definition is hogwash.
It absolutely holds up, in the same way that clicking an "I agree" button in an online transaction is a representation of agreement, which courts have already held to be valid. See, e.g., the Uniform Electronic Transactions Act (UETA), and Feldman v. Google, E.D. Penn, Civ. 06-2540 (2007).
Re: United Airlines Threatens to Engage Collections for Passengers Who Skip Segments
#75Earlier quoted context omitted.
No, because you did not make, and McDonald's did not rely on, any representation of your intent to eat the fries.
What representation did that person make of his intent to fly to the final destination?
Re: United Airlines Threatens to Engage Collections for Passengers Who Skip Segments
#76Re: United Airlines Threatens to Engage Collections for Passengers Who Skip Segments
#77Earlier quoted context omitted.
Technically yes, but the injury is de minimis so McDonald's isn't likely to demand recompense in this situation.
What if I habitually don't like fries? Say I have done it 2000 times?
Re: United Airlines Threatens to Engage Collections for Passengers Who Skip Segments
#78Earlier quoted context omitted.
If I order a meal at McDonald's and don't eat the fries, is that fraud, because the cost of a burger plus soda separately maybe more than the meal with a burger, soda and the fries?
Technically yes, but the injury is de minimis so McDonald's isn't likely to demand recompense in this situation.
Re: United Airlines Threatens to Engage Collections for Passengers Who Skip Segments
#79Earlier quoted context omitted.
Attorney here! (Not providing legal advice, though.) The elements of common law civil fraud are as follows: 1. Somebody intentionally misrepresents a material fact in order to obtain action or forbearance by another person ("I am traveling to ILM from SFO" but in fact is going to IAD); 2. The other person relies upon the misrepresentation (United prices the fare as though the passenger were going to ILM instead of IA…
Purchasing a good or service with multiple components is not, in and of itself, a representation to the seller of intent to use all the components. Now, there could be something United has inserted in the purchase flow of all multileg tickets which assures that the purchaser makes a representation of intent to use every leg, though I've never seen anything like that when purchasing tickets (and a contract of adhesion…
Do you have a legal citation for this? I'm unaware of any law that supports this assertion.
In any event, the representation in question is "I want to fly from city A to city B." It's pretty reasonable for an airline to conclude that when a passenger makes this request, that is in fact their intent, not to fly to city C.
Re: United Airlines Threatens to Engage Collections for Passengers Who Skip Segments
#80I had no idea the lay out what is acceptable luggage including trophy antlers:
Antlers - Subject to the conditions and charges specified below, one set of antlers retained as hunting trophies per ticketed Passenger will be accepted as Checked Baggage, if aircraft size and load conditions permit.
If you go on hajj, you can bring back 10 L (!) of ZAMZAM water free of charge:
ZAM ZAM Water - Subject to the conditions below, one container or jerkin containing up to 10 liters (2.64 gallons) of ZAMZAM water will be accepted as checked baggage by UA at no extra charge in addition to the Baggage Allowance.
[1]https://www.united.com/ual/en/us/fly/contract-of-carriage.ht...