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Java Is Still Free

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Re: Java Is Still Free

#71

Post by simion314 »

kamaal wrote: post #44
icebraining wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I don't agree with their tactics, Google was - by their own word - not using Java. This lawsuit has really nothing to do with people using OpenJDK/Oracle Java.

>>This lawsuit has really nothing to do with people using OpenJDK/Oracle Java. That depends on how commercially successful your product is. I don't think it would even make logical sense for Oracle to go after every single start up that uses Java. But lets say tomorrow news came out that a big reason for AWS's success is Java, then all of a sudden you are going to see Oracle want some of that money. Please note I'm n…

Apple could install a free Java version and Oracle could do nothing about it, the problem was that Google was not using Java.

Re: Java Is Still Free

#72

Post by giancarlostoro »

threeseed wrote: post #37
guitarbill wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

there's more to it than that. let's take C#, as i find that interesting and a bit sad. C# had what seemed like huge mindshare around the 2.0 era. great tooling, sane language, great developer experience. of course it helped that Windows was still huge. now? it still exists, but i'm happy to bet it will never become that big again for various reasons (windows only for a long time, still windows-centric, sucky webdev +…

Reading your comment is honestly like going back in time. Where are these client side Java apps ? I haven't seen one in the wild for years.

And now with Microsoft's Blazor[0] technology you're more likely than ever to see C# on client-side web applications through WebAssembly.

[0]: https://github.com/aspnet/Blazor

Re: Java Is Still Free

#73

Post by simion314 »

amelius wrote: post #13
mariusmg wrote: post #10

Why don't the bigwigs like RedHat + IBM just fork it already ? Take OpenJDK , GPL the IBM runtime and slap some stupid coffee inspired nickname on it. People will trust that more than they trust Oracle anyway...

Last time somebody copied the API there was a lawsuit.

There are some rules if you want to re implement Java, but it is possible since we have many alternatives to chose from. T^he main point is to pass all the needed tests to confirm your re-implementation is compatible and not do what MS tried to do (embrace,extend,extinguish)

Re: Java Is Still Free

#74

Post by simion314 »

MaxBarraclough wrote: post #42
threeseed wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you honestly write in Java/Scala/Clojure etc ? Because I have never met a single JVM developer who either (a) wants another JVM fork, (b) wants OpenJDK to be undermined or (c) thinks Oracle has been anything other than a pretty great steward of the platform.

Point (c) is changing with this recent kerfuffle, no?

I think you did not understand what is happening, Oracle Java8 is EOL, you have to take a decission:

-continue using it without updates

-pay for updates (similar how some banks pay MS for getting updates for some older Windows)

-upgrade to a) paid Oracle version b) free OpenJDK c) some other Java re-implementation

-do not upgrade but switch to OpenJDK(say for RedHat if you want support and fixes)

This thing happened before, some product gets EOL and some big budget companies will pay to not upgrade and continue getting support. The only people that are affected is people that would like to get the extended support for free.

Oracle,RedHat and others make money from offering support and updates. IMO Java ecosystem is healthy and competitive, you have alternatives, you have a group of companies working on it, you have many choices where to buy support if you need, you have a lot of tools and libraries that you can use.

I am not using Java but in our project when e need to do some task we always try to use existing work, so we use CLI apps if possible and most of the time this apps are made in Java and are high quality and save us maybe months of work

Re: Java Is Still Free

#76

Post by mirages »

iuwhagtr wrote: post #52
tannhaeuser wrote: post #9

Hint: if you want to get a discussion going, or, in fact, have your article read in the first place, don't put it on Google docs, nor medium via link shorteners for that matter.

Why not? Google Docs does not show any stupid popovers, ads or anything

Google doc is blocked by default by our corp proxies as well

Re: Java Is Still Free

#77

Post by TeMPOraL »

pjmlp wrote: post #59
MaxBarraclough wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Point (c) is changing with this recent kerfuffle, no?

Only by the Oracle haters that lack experience on the Java world. Sun, Bea and many others used to charge for support as well, IBM still charges for it, but it is good to pay them because it wasn't Oracle it seems.

How does this square with the quote under following link from today https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18217952?

Re: Java Is Still Free

#78

Post by saiya-jin »

sytelus wrote: post #43
kamaal wrote: post #26

The problem with write ups like these is they send the exact opposite message of what was intended to be sent. Even those people who didn't receive the news, will now hear about this. On the other hand, the entire write up seems to attempt to convince people to keep faith in Oracle. The problem with this kind of talk is you are the mercy of some VP in Oracle, whose one decision could change everything and given the f…

> The only languages that can match that ecosystem are Perl and Python. And may be Javascript. Nope. Python as well as Perl are pretty slow compared to Java on JVM. To replace Java you need to move to either C# or Go. The key thing would be licensing terms and available frameworks. Smart CIOs with lots of Java baggage in their companies should be investing in transition to C# given the state of things. It would be pr…

CIO deciding to dump all Java estate and move to .NET/C# wouldn't last in the position for long. Business doesn't care much about platform or other technological nitpicks, they want solid, reliable tools. Both (and many more) can deliver this.

Java was, is and will be solid, you can find much more tools/frameworks/libraries for any task, and tons of highly skilled devs. That few people moan on internet forums won't change things a bit.

Re: Java Is Still Free

#79

Post by pjmlp »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #77
pjmlp wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only by the Oracle haters that lack experience on the Java world. Sun, Bea and many others used to charge for support as well, IBM still charges for it, but it is good to pay them because it wasn't Oracle it seems.

How does this square with the quote under following link from today https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18217952 ?

I would take Gosling's opinion over Brian Cantrill's one, given who was actually involved with Java at Sun.

Plus I belong to Java developers community since the early days, and I quite remember how the Sun, Oracle and IBM triad used to push Java altogether.

Including those NC announcements made by Sun and Oracle.

Re: Java Is Still Free

#80

Post by bradleyjg »

The bottom line isn't all that complicated.

If you've never bought a commercial support contract just switch to OpenJDK (via AdoptOpenJDK if you want standalone binaries) and be on your merry way. Which giant company(s) are taking the lead role in maintaining the project will change, but that should have little impact on you.

If you do have a commercial support agreement, you can keep doing what you've been doing with the same company you've been doing it with.

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