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Air India Express 737 Hits ILS, Damages Wall on Departure, Flies for 4 Hours

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Re: Air India Express 737 Hits ILS, Damages Wall on Departure, Flies for 4 Hours

#71

Question for professional pilots here: does this feel like normal behaviour for a pilot? From my limited experience of pilots, this seems entirely unlike the kind of behaviour you'd expect - they're usually conservative when it comes to safety or is that just the projected image to reassure the public?!

[deleted]

Re: Air India Express 737 Hits ILS, Damages Wall on Departure, Flies for 4 Hours

#72

Question for professional pilots here: does this feel like normal behaviour for a pilot? From my limited experience of pilots, this seems entirely unlike the kind of behaviour you'd expect - they're usually conservative when it comes to safety or is that just the projected image to reassure the public?!

No. Go-around and assess the damage on the deck.

Re: Air India Express 737 Hits ILS, Damages Wall on Departure, Flies for 4 Hours

#73

Question for professional pilots here: does this feel like normal behaviour for a pilot? From my limited experience of pilots, this seems entirely unlike the kind of behaviour you'd expect - they're usually conservative when it comes to safety or is that just the projected image to reassure the public?!

I used to work as a flight instructor and flew corporate. I’ve flown small airplanes with a bunch of airline pilots, whatever that is worth.

This does not seem like normal behavior from an airline pilot at all. I can see about 10% of private pilots doing something like this. It would probably be someone who has been flying a long time and gotten way too comfortable. Things always work out, so why not this time? The difference with an airline is its incredibly public flying. Even if the pilots disregard everyone’s safety (including their own) they know that they’ll be caught. You do something dumb and it’s going to be on the news, even if it all works out. How many of us can say that about or jobs?

The fact that the crew thought that this was a risk worth taking reflects really poorly on the safety culture of that airline. They thought that flying an airplane that was compromised some unknown amount was worth keeping the schedule going (or maybe people just wouldn’t find out?). That idea got informed somehow.

Re: Air India Express 737 Hits ILS, Damages Wall on Departure, Flies for 4 Hours

#74
post #25

I have been trying to go over how this could happen. The damage to the wall seems so severe that I would image even over the sound of the engine the pilot would hear and notice that they had hit a wall. Flying the plane at this point would be risking their life. The first thing that came to my mind was the only reason a pilot would risk his life is if his life was already at risk and if he had been drinking when he h…

Over at http://pprune.org the suggestion is that the pilot's seat was not locked into position correctly and slid back during takeoff. This caused the pilot to pull back on the stick too early and his instinct was the push forward to keep the plane on the correct trajectory. He likely over-corrected and ended up flying 6ft off the ground at the end of the runway where the landing gear caught an antenna and the chainl…

Ugh, there have been Cessna deaths caused the same way. It's my least favorite failure mode to think about, since there's no obvious way to correct. In a Cessna, best you can do is release the yoke and tiptoe on to the rudders, but professional instructors have still died when this happens to them, since low altitude errors are often not correctable by the time you've lost too much altitude.

Usually there ought to be more than one locking mechanism involved, though..?

https://generalaviationnews.com/2018/03/16/failure-secure-se...

https://generalaviationnews.com/2016/10/18/seat-sliding-back...

Re: Air India Express 737 Hits ILS, Damages Wall on Departure, Flies for 4 Hours

#75

Question for professional pilots here: does this feel like normal behaviour for a pilot? From my limited experience of pilots, this seems entirely unlike the kind of behaviour you'd expect - they're usually conservative when it comes to safety or is that just the projected image to reassure the public?!

Unfortunately don’t have time for a long post at the moment, but as an airline pilot and instructor/check pilot, I can say that extreme incompetence exists in the airline world, especially in Africa, India, SE Asia. There could be some very good reasons that they chose to continue, and often I learn those reasons when the facts are released, discovering that a good decision was made. I’ll be following the investigation, but this one seems somewhat alarming to me. Here’s another of mind-blowing incompetence, also from India - https://www.ajc.com/news/national/airliner-forced-land-after....

Also, more automated, single-pilot/ground operated or pilotless aircraft can’t come soon enough.

Re: Air India Express 737 Hits ILS, Damages Wall on Departure, Flies for 4 Hours

#76
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A good reason would be fuel weight on possibly damaged landing gear. Also, the airport wasn't good anymore. They had just destroyed the Instrument Landing System at the end of the runway. Nobody should land there.

A lot of pilots don't use ILS and use a visual approach. That was one of the issues with the SF airport, as the left runway was closed, the lights were off and the pilot lined up with the taxi way.

> the lights were off

While it is true that the normal lighting was off (because it wasn't a valid runway at the time), there was a lighted, flashing X to indicate that fact. Along with the fact that the taxiway was not illuminated as a runway, and the pilots were notified about the runway closure…

https://ntsb.gov/investigations/Pages/DCA17IA148.aspx

Re: Air India Express 737 Hits ILS, Damages Wall on Departure, Flies for 4 Hours

#77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Over at http://pprune.org the suggestion is that the pilot's seat was not locked into position correctly and slid back during takeoff. This caused the pilot to pull back on the stick too early and his instinct was the push forward to keep the plane on the correct trajectory. He likely over-corrected and ended up flying 6ft off the ground at the end of the runway where the landing gear caught an antenna and the chainl…

Ugh, there have been Cessna deaths caused the same way. It's my least favorite failure mode to think about, since there's no obvious way to correct. In a Cessna, best you can do is release the yoke and tiptoe on to the rudders, but professional instructors have still died when this happens to them, since low altitude errors are often not correctable by the time you've lost too much altitude. Usually there ought to be…

In contrast, I can't say I've ever heard of seats in cars having this problem. Is it because plane seats are highly optimised for weight?

Re: Air India Express 737 Hits ILS, Damages Wall on Departure, Flies for 4 Hours

#79

Question for professional pilots here: does this feel like normal behaviour for a pilot? From my limited experience of pilots, this seems entirely unlike the kind of behaviour you'd expect - they're usually conservative when it comes to safety or is that just the projected image to reassure the public?!

No, it isn't normal behavior. And it is not unknown that some airlines are more lax than others.

You mean LAX?

Re: Air India Express 737 Hits ILS, Damages Wall on Departure, Flies for 4 Hours

#80
Just saw the pics of the damage on the twitter thread linked-to in the article. See below.

https://twitter.com/shukla_tarun/status/1050595274869993474

Looks quite severe.

I'm impressed the plane flew for 3 hours without getting destablized and crashing....

Air India has the worst safety reputation in India, and several accidents / incidents. I flew Spice Jet a few times over the last few weeks when I was there visiting. Spice Jet is like India's Virgin America. Service was excellent and I did not experience any issues while flying.

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