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The Apple II Source Code for the LOGO Language Found

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Re: The Apple II Source Code for the LOGO Language Found

#73

Post by oblio »

crescentfresh wrote: post #21
jake-low wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you don't mind me asking, did the book do any explaining of why the magic computer words were in a foreign language (English)? Had you been exposed to much English already when you picked up the book? As a native English speaker I feel fairly ignorant of how programming is taught in other (human) languages. I recall a quote [1] by Eric S. Raymond commenting (or perhaps speculating?) that Linus commented his kernel…

I always wondered how non-english speaking developers from other countries who were first adopters of HTTP (or any new tech) reacted to words like "GET" and "Content-Type" and other things that were clearly invented by westerners. What would we think if we had to implement something new and use words we didn't understand?

> other things that were clearly invented by westerners

There are plenty of non-English speaking Westerners, you know? :D

Re: The Apple II Source Code for the LOGO Language Found

#74

Post by tomtomtom777 »

dragonwriter wrote: post #70
tomtomtom777 wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple II did use ASCII. But ASCII defines 128 code-points. The other 128 code-points are specific to the character encoding or "codepage". They don't like Apple's "idiot" character encoding (which is custom, Apple II specific), so they throw away the top bit with the AND leaving only ASCII characters.

> But ASCII defines 128 code-points. The other 128 code-points are specific to the character encoding or "codepage". ASCII is a character encoding, and it's a 7-bit encoding. It has no code pages. There are many 8-bit encodings / code pages that are ASCII supersets (including the Apple II one), however.

Yes. I meant to the "8-bit character encoding" but I think it's clear from the context.

Re: The Apple II Source Code for the LOGO Language Found

#75

Post by rjsw »

DonHopkins wrote: post #43
derefr wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Diving into that MACLISP file, I found this variable and explanatory comment: > SYNSTAX ... A STACK OF SYNTAX PROPERTIES If there were a "stupid-clever variable names" hall of fame, that one would certainly make the cut.

It also mentions BIBOP LISP: BIg Bag Of Pages (OR (BOUNDP 'BIBOP) (SETQ BIBOP ITS)) ;;THE TURTLE PACKAGE IS GOING TO EAT LOTS OF FLONUM SPACE, SO IN BIBOP LISP, ASSURE ;;THAT ENOUGH WILL BE AVAILABLE. (AND (MEMQ 'BIBOP (STATUS FEATURES)) (ALLOC '(FLONUM (2000. 4000. NIL) FLPDL 2000.))) https://www.saildart.org/BIBOP.RPG[UP,DOC]4 BIBOP is the dynamically expandable version of MACLISP, the SAIL standard MACLISP. Essent…

Franz Lisp used BiBOP too, but not in any way that worked with the paging system of the host machine, it was just for determining the type of an object.

Re: The Apple II Source Code for the LOGO Language Found

#76

Post by larsbrinkhoff »

executesorder66 wrote: post #71

Does anyone know where/how the guy found it?

I found it in backups from ITS. ITS is the MIT operating system for the PDP-10, which was the workhorse around the AI Lab, Logo Lab, Lab for Computer Science, Mathlab, Dynamic Modeling group, etc.

Re: The Apple II Source Code for the LOGO Language Found

#77

Post by effish »

larsbrinkhoff wrote: post #76
executesorder66 wrote: post #71

Does anyone know where/how the guy found it?

I found it in backups from ITS. ITS is the MIT operating system for the PDP-10, which was the workhorse around the AI Lab, Logo Lab, Lab for Computer Science, Mathlab, Dynamic Modeling group, etc.

Hmmm, I’m vaguely remembering uploading the TI-Logo source to the MIT ITS PDP-10 for backup purposes too. If so it might be there also. You’d want to be careful about the copyright on that. Though I’d love to see it again

Re: The Apple II Source Code for the LOGO Language Found

#78

Post by effish »

glandium wrote: post #49
jake-low wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you don't mind me asking, did the book do any explaining of why the magic computer words were in a foreign language (English)? Had you been exposed to much English already when you picked up the book? As a native English speaker I feel fairly ignorant of how programming is taught in other (human) languages. I recall a quote [1] by Eric S. Raymond commenting (or perhaps speculating?) that Linus commented his kernel…

In France, in the 80s, schools had Thomson MO5 machines that came with a french version of logo, with commands in french. repete 4 [ avance 100 tournedroite 90 ] or with abbreviated commands: repete 4 [ av 100 td 90 ]

The Thomson version of Logo was developed by ACT Informatique in Paris by Sylvain Angéli.

Re: The Apple II Source Code for the LOGO Language Found

#79

Post by larsbrinkhoff »

effish wrote: post #77
larsbrinkhoff wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I found it in backups from ITS. ITS is the MIT operating system for the PDP-10, which was the workhorse around the AI Lab, Logo Lab, Lab for Computer Science, Mathlab, Dynamic Modeling group, etc.

Hmmm, I’m vaguely remembering uploading the TI-Logo source to the MIT ITS PDP-10 for backup purposes too. If so it might be there also. You’d want to be careful about the copyright on that. Though I’d love to see it again

That's why I try to run most of the finds by the original authors. I sent you an email with some more details; or at least I tried and it didn't bounce.
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