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SiriusXM buys Pandora for $3.5 billion

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Re: SiriusXM buys Pandora for $3.5 billion

#71

Post by clay_the_ripper »

I think this is really exciting actually. I LOVE SiriusXM because their radio is curated by an actual DJ. You get to hear so many tracks that algorithmic services like Spotify never would surface. I use both Spotify and SiriusXM as for me they fulfill very different use cases. Spotify is for playing what I want to hear and Sirius is for when I want a human with deep expertise in a genre to play things for me.

For me, an algorithmic feed of music just isn’t interesting. Music is art, and art is for humans, not computers.

Re: SiriusXM buys Pandora for $3.5 billion

#72

Post by freehunter »

MrEfficiency wrote: post #39
iammiles wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And when everyone else was letting you select any music you wanted in playlist, they insisted on staying radio style only. This is really the nail in the coffin. After a couple days on a Spotify trial, I converted to a paid Spotify account. The only reason I logged onto Pandora after converting was to get the list of my favorited songs to add to my playlist on Spotify.

Radio was cool but they repeated songs too much. The thumbs up and down would ruin the radio algorithm. I would thumbs down live versions or comedy skits, then it would skew the entire system. This was years ago.

Yeah last time I used Pandora, every station would inevitably turn into "freehunter's favorite songs". Rap station? Well Run-DMC did a cover of Walk This Way, and Linkin Park is kind of rap and Beastie Boys did a lot of rock songs, and now suddenly I'm getting a lot of rock in my rap list, and rock melds into pop pretty easy, and now suddenly my rap playlist has Katy Perry and Kesha.

And thumbs down is always way too harsh in any algorithm you'll find, because there's no way of telling the algorithm why you didn't like it. If I thumbs down Thunder by Imagine Dragons, how does it know I really do like Imagine Dragons and that album was good and the genre was good, I just don't like that one song? And if I thumbs down Good Riddance by Green Day how does the algorithm know I love Green Day and I like that style of music, but I just have a really negative emotional attachment to that song and I don't want to cry right now?

Context is super hard but super important. I listen to a lot of ambient music at work and now my Apple Music and Spotify suggestions are all ambient music, even though I don't listen to that genre for pleasure.

Re: SiriusXM buys Pandora for $3.5 billion

#73

Post by freehunter »

01100011 wrote: post #32
josefresco wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Why do I need satellite radio" I'll answer my myself: For my car(s). SiriusXM just ... works. No pairing, no bluetooth on/off dance, no cables, no unpairing my wife's phone, no setting my car radio's source, Internet connection or not ... it just works. The only other time I listen to "satellite" radio is in my office, streaming from my Chromebook - which is just silly but don't judge me.

I've had Sirius for bugs me is that drive under a tree or overpass. Seriously, having really bugs me.

I keep Sirius in my daily driver because the satellite cutouts are annoying, but so are cellular dead zones. And cellular dead zones are more common for me than satellite cutouts.

Re: SiriusXM buys Pandora for $3.5 billion

#74

Post by freehunter »

josefresco wrote: post #48
jbob2000 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This just sounds like a problem with your car's stereo. For me, I get in the car, plug my phone in (always have a car-only charger cable), press "Media" on the dash, and it picks up whatever was playing on my phone. I don't have sirius built into my car, I think this is an american car thing (did sirius pay them buckets of money for this integration? methinks so). If I wanted it, I'd have to have a ugly receiver tape…

*Multiple cars. High tech, low tech doesn't matter - it's a shit show. You know what still works? FM radio.

You must have a great local radio market, then. I wouldn't consider any of my local FM stations to be "working" radio.

Re: SiriusXM buys Pandora for $3.5 billion

#75

Post by chrisbro »

thehashrocket wrote: post #45
bpick wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pandora spent much more effort attempting to get me to sign-up (and re-sign-up) than they ever did trying to retain me. The customer service experience was harrowing, featured slow response times, an indifferent attitude to my issues and a wholly inadequate resolution leading me to quit the service. Every so often I would see news coverage about them struggling and all I could think was, "guess things on the customer…

I feel this way about Sirius/XM. It was such a hassle to deal with them every 6 months or a year to get a better rate when it came up for renewal. It just didn't feel like it was worth it anymore. And once I finally left they would snail mail me offers to come back constantly. I couldn't help but think that all that money spent mailing me to come back could have been spent just providing a more affordable service in…

I was about to say, if naggy and poor customer service is a hallmark of Pandora, then becoming a part of SiriusXM will be a match made in heaven (hell?). When I finally decided to drop SiriusXM and called in to cancel my account, it took me something like 20 minutes worth of begging the phone rep to just never let me have to pay their company money ever again. They spent the entire time questioning how I used the service and trying to forcibly get me to sign up for some lowered rate for x months. I will never purchase something from them again.

Re: SiriusXM buys Pandora for $3.5 billion

#76

Post by analyst74 »

jbob2000 wrote: post #5
relaunched wrote: post #3

This makes me side. I am a long-time, paid subscriber. We'll see what happens next, fingers crossed. I'm not sure if this was a win for the team or a mercy killing. But, if someone can explain what's in this for customers, that would be very helpful.

SiriusXM is dying, if not already dead. Why do I need satellite radio when I can just listen to a podcast, or preload a bunch of music on my phone? Or just stream? 10 years ago, you could still do these things, but it was harder or very expensive. Now, you just open an app on your unlimited data phone, plug in the aux cable, and start driving. So this purchase is about Sirius re-entering the market. I think they'll p…

The audio space has been going through extremely cutthroat competitions and consolidation. Even today, most of the major players are operating at loss. SiriusXM is still one of the largest revenue-wise, and possibly the only profitable company in the space.

Its current business model may be at risk as car companies start to get more smartphone integrations. But with the money and content they have, they are uniquely positioned to selectively buy out streaming competitors to diversify their income streams.

There is risk if they can successfully integrate Pandora with their existing business, of course.

Re: SiriusXM buys Pandora for $3.5 billion

#77

Post by gizmo385 »

clay_the_ripper wrote: post #71

I think this is really exciting actually. I LOVE SiriusXM because their radio is curated by an actual DJ. You get to hear so many tracks that algorithmic services like Spotify never would surface. I use both Spotify and SiriusXM as for me they fulfill very different use cases. Spotify is for playing what I want to hear and Sirius is for when I want a human with deep expertise in a genre to play things for me. For me,…

Honestly, I discover far more music through services like Spotify and Pandora than I ever have through the SiriusXM stations that I listen to.

Re: SiriusXM buys Pandora for $3.5 billion

#78

Post by steve19 »

izzydata wrote: post #44
sigstoat wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think Sirus only makes money off the folks who forget to cancel after the promotional period. It’s like $20 a month and I’ve forgot to do it my self for a couple months. they don't really have an ongoing per-customer costs, right? so long as they extract the all the money you're willing to pay them, be it $20 or $90, that's fine. i expect they worry more about total customer count.

Audible has a similar ridiculous thing going on. At any point you can cancel your $15 a month subscription and they will ask if you want to pay $7 instead. Anyone with this knowledge can easily get the service for $7 forever. Or you can start infinite trials and get infinite free books.

Can you explain I more detail how I can get cheaper audible?

Re: SiriusXM buys Pandora for $3.5 billion

#79

Post by forkLding »

rubicon33 wrote: post #55
treis wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Poor Pandora and their investors. This is for about a quarter of what they were worth just 4 years ago. They also got 3.5 billion for a company that hasn't made any money in its 18 year existence so it's hard to feel too bad.

Being a business noob, I've got to ask - How exactly does a company that makes nothing in 18 years, get acquired for 3.5 billion?

Business valuation is usually a multiple (3x, 5x, 10x) multiplied by a certain metric such as revenue, net income (can be before tax and interest) or free cash flow with considerations for growth. [Can also include current market cap if they're public or previous estimated valuations as benchmarks]

Plus or minus any assets that can be made liquid/sold for cash which haven't been depreciated totally or can be still used by the new company.

Strategic considerations also factor in customer/user base, current relationships with buyers/suppliers, technical know-how and market share which can boost or decrease the valuation.

Liabilities and the general riskiness of the transaction/merger such as debt can also factor in, so a financially healthy company is worth more.

After all that, it will depend on negotiating power/how much SirusXM wants Pandora and if there are also other potential buyers bidding for the company. If say Apple Music started bidding for Pandora, SiriusXM and Apple Music could keep one-upping each other so that the price increases.

You can google things like Enterprise Value, Discounted Cash Flows, etc. but they're a bit advanced and based on the principles I've mentioned.

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